"Vertigo" - Correlations with TPTR  

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(@major-tom)
Town Visitor

This topic is out there already  but ---In my opinion, fans of eps. 17-18 should watch "Vertigo" sometime soon.

It gets you in the same headspace and plays with themes of doubles - and trying to move between remembered realities. 

It was not a critical success upon release - mostly because in the second half, Jimmy Steward is more creepy and obsessed than heroic. 

In that way there are two complete stories in the film - the first about Madeline - and the second about Judy.

The change in tone between the two 'movies' inside of Vertigo is like the diff between ep. 17 and 18 - never explained and uncomfortable. Lynchian.

Some thoughts:

When Scotty comes out of the sanatorium - we have no idea how much time has past. The movie begins again with a different tone and the temperament of our hero is altered. He is not the same Scotty ... then he meets Judy.

Then he literally takes her on this long drive to go back in time to change the past ... even thought he knows she is not really "her" ... he takes her to the place of trauma and says "one more time back into the past and then I can be free."

The final 15 seconds are as close to the end of TPTRs ending as anything I have seen. It ends with a scream and leaves you totally disoriented. No comforting sense of right and wrong - just  

" ....!!!!!!!..... "

Midge never appears in story two - was she even real? What if the sanatorium sequence comes at the end and we are shown it out of order between the two stories. Lots of stuff to consider --

Others have thoughts on links between these two great artworks?

 

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Posted : 26/09/2017 8:32 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective

I haven't watched Vertigo in nearly twenty years, so I don't have much to contribute at this time, but it's been moved up on my watch list due to all the recent mentions. 

I know that Badalamenti Fan has mentioned it here:

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-17-part-18/whats-better-than-tptr/

As has Lawrence Charap here: 

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-17-part-18/hitchcockvertigo/

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Posted : 26/09/2017 11:57 pm
(@ranmacmh)
Roadhouse Regular

I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't seen Vertigo OR Sunset Boulevard.  My homework list is getting long.  Love having lots of great films to watch for the first time though.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 12:01 am
(@curtis_farnham)
Lodger

Yes so many similar themes you could write a thesis on it. Lynch gave a nod to Vertigo in the first season, Madeline ("Maddy") Ferguson was an amalgam of the the 2 main characters names. Like TP it also demands multiple viewings, you'll catch something new each time you watch it. It's a creepy, disquieting film... much like episode 18.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 12:52 am
(@andrew_glasson)
RR Diner Patron

Vertigo was definitely the inspiration for the last episode of this third series of Twin Peaks.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 5:03 am
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Hi Christen,
 
Posted by: Christen Phillips

I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't seen Vertigo OR Sunset Boulevard.  My homework list is getting long.  Love having lots of great films to watch for the first time though.

I truly envy you being able to watch both of these classics for the first time. 

I would say, "I hope you enjoy them," but there's not really much doubt that you will!

😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 27/09/2017 11:10 am
(@andrew_glasson)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Christen Phillips

I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't seen Vertigo OR Sunset Boulevard.  My homework list is getting long.  Love having lots of great films to watch for the first time though.

Both brilliant films from 2 of the best directors around.  I did an essay in my American Studies degree on film noir looking at Sunset Boulevard in particular and I have seen the film a number of times.  Someone ought to make a list somewhere of all the different influences on Twin Peaks The Return.  This could include things from painting such as Edward Hopper, Francis Bacon, or film such as Cocteau, Kubrick, Hitchcock, Wilder, Tarantino, Tatu or books such as Stephen King, Aleister Crowley.  You could go on and on finding influences even some you probably haven't noticed yet.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 2:30 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: Andrew Glasson
Posted by: Christen Phillips

I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't seen Vertigo OR Sunset Boulevard.  My homework list is getting long.  Love having lots of great films to watch for the first time though.

Both brilliant films from 2 of the best directors around.  I did an essay in my American Studies degree on film noir looking at Sunset Boulevard in particular and I have seen the film a number of times.  Someone ought to make a list somewhere of all the different influences on Twin Peaks The Return.  This could include things from painting such as Edward Hopper, Francis Bacon, or film such as Cocteau, Kubrick, Hitchcock, Wilder, Tarantino, Tatu or books such as Stephen King, Aleister Crowley.  You could go on and on finding influences even some you probably haven't noticed yet.

Yet Lynch claims no influence. ? (Aside from "Sunset BLVD,"). 

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Posted : 27/09/2017 2:40 pm
(@nicolas_lincy)
Owl

Hi Tom! I've done a video edit about the links between "Twin Peaks" and Hitchcock's films. The video shows a lot of links with Vertigo (which is my favorite film ever... with Mulholland drive and Twin Peaks The Return!) :

I hope you'll enjoy my little experiment!

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Posted : 27/09/2017 2:57 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Hi Nicolas,
 
Posted by: Nicolas Lincy

Hi Tom! I've done a video edit about the links between "Twin Peaks" and Hitchcock's films. The video shows a lot of links with Vertigo (which is my favorite film ever... with Mulholland drive and Twin Peaks The Return!) : 

I hope you'll enjoy my little experiment!

Lynchcock! 

Brilliant.  😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 27/09/2017 5:15 pm
(@andrew_glasson)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Nicolas Lincy

Hi Tom! I've done a video edit about the links between "Twin Peaks" and Hitchcock's films. The video shows a lot of links with Vertigo (which is my favorite film ever... with Mulholland drive and Twin Peaks The Return!) :

I hope you'll enjoy my little experiment!

That was really brilliant.  Just shows the influence of Hitchcock on Lynch when he was making Twin Peaks especially Vertigo.

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Posted : 27/09/2017 5:19 pm
(@major-tom)
Town Visitor
Posted by: Christen Phillips

I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't seen Vertigo OR Sunset Boulevard.  My homework list is getting long.  Love having lots of great films to watch for the first time though.

Sunset Blvd is a masterpiece.

No matter how you prepare, the last scene is a shocker - goose bumps and amazement!

The famous last line as she comes down the stairs - it's electrifying!

Amazing script / great film!

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Posted : 27/09/2017 10:06 pm
(@major-tom)
Town Visitor
Posted by: Nicolas Lincy

Hi Tom! I've done a video edit about the links between "Twin Peaks" and Hitchcock's films. The video shows a lot of links with Vertigo (which is my favorite film ever... with Mulholland drive and Twin Peaks The Return!) :

I hope you'll enjoy my little experiment!

Well done sir! 

You hit on so many great points here...

Now consider this -

A re-edit of Vertigo where:  after the court scene - Scotty goes back to wandering. He finds the green car revisits old haunts - meets Judy and every thing plays out the same.

Then after Judys fall - then ... finally we see the sequence where Midge visits him in the sanatorium and the scene with the records. Then she confronts the doctor - says "it'll take more than Mozart to fix him."

And then the final scene is the Grey colorless scene of Midge walking down the hall.

Ouch! That's a devastating way to picture the story, but those scenes viewed in a TPTR lens could also work there if we imagine them out of chronological order.

Color in "Vertigo" is so tightly controlled - that scene where Midge walks down the hall is literally grey - without color - like johnny o in the institution.

Last thought: Most people call him Scotty - but Midge calls him Johnny O.

Names can be so important when realities start overlapping!

; )

 

 

 

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Posted : 27/09/2017 10:31 pm
(@nicolas_lincy)
Owl

Yes, you're so right! I have found another big Vertigo fan here!

I've thought quite the same thing, after seeing that masterpiece several times: that the scene of the hospital could be the real ending, and the scenes after that one are a dream. The process in Scottie's sick head. After all, in the first part of the film, Madeleine always speaks about her dreams, her dreams that make her obsessed with Carlotta. So, yes maybe in part two we are seeing Scottie's dreams.

I never thought about the many names of Scottie! The many names of Madeleine, I thought about it already: at the end of Twin Peaks season 2, when Cooper is in the Lodge and he sees alternatively Annie/Caroline/Laura, it made me think of the eternal figures of dead women in "Vertigo" (Carlotta/Madeleine/Judy).

But now that we have seen many Coopers in TP3, you are right about "Vertigo". As in a mirror, Scottie too has many names: his name is John Ferguson, many of his friends call him Scottie or Johnny, and Midge call him Johnny O. Thanks for your observations!

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Posted : 28/09/2017 2:22 am
(@andrew_glasson)
RR Diner Patron

The film Vertigo is based on a French book called The Living and the Dead by Pierre Boileau and Thomas Narcejac published in 1956. 

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Posted : 28/09/2017 4:58 am
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