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(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: Chris Flackett

Something I'm curious about: Sarah's middle name is given in the Dossier as Judith (not sure if that's been mentioned in the show before or the secret history. Memory's not what it used to be). Are we supposed to read something into this or is it a case of misdirection?

Not certain if we're supposed to, but zig drew the same connection that you're implying. 

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Posted : 04/11/2017 8:34 am
(@chris_flackett)
Roadhouse Regular

It's interesting isn't it? There's so much we're told/shown, but there's so much that can be inferred also.

For example, a little bit earlier in the dossier we're told the following:

"Joudy, it turns out, is also the name of an ancient entity in Sumerian mythology. (This dates back to at least 3000 B.C.) The name was used to describe a species of wandering demon—also generically known as an utukku—that had had “escaped from the underworld” and roamed freely throughout the earth, where they feasted on human flesh and, allegedly, ripped the souls from their victims, which provided even more meaningful nourishment. They particularly thrived while feeding—and I quote—“on human suffering.” These beings were said to appear in both male and female forms—“Joudy” indicated the female, and the male was known as “Ba’al”—and, while they were considered beyond dangerous individually, if a male and a female ever united while on the earth, the ancient texts claimed, claimed, their resulting “marriage” would create something far more perilous. As in: the end of the world as we know it. A few centuries later, Ba’al becomes better known, in both Christian and Islamic sources, as “Beelzebub,” a false god, or, as he’s known more generally and generically today, the devil."

It wouldn't be too much of a leap to take an inference, with reference to taking nourishment from souls, that Bob is Ba'al, who possessed/inhabited Leiland, and Judy inhabited Sarah and that the marriage referred to above was a literal one - the Palmers.

But then it could easily be anything other than that, couldn't it? Nothing is confirmed. But the inference is there.

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Posted : 04/11/2017 9:01 am
(@lucas_bracci)
Deputy

At the end of the book, there is a picture with Bob, the radio woodsman, and Sarah Palmer / Jumping Man.

It makes me thinking that the Jumping Man IS Judy.

 

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Posted : 04/11/2017 9:17 am
(@frogmoth)
Town Visitor

I think evil Coop was trying to make that "earthly union" happen. 

that was why he wanted the coordinates. the coordinates weren't for jack rabbit's palace or the entry to the lodge (like everyone thought). he wanted to get to the PALMER house because that is where Judy was currently living. remember he was asking WHO is judy. And then phillip jefferies told him to go talk to her himself, and gave him the coordinates which when he first entered the portal was going to spit him out at the palmer house (before the giant detoured him to the sherriff's station).  He didn't KNOW where judy was. Yes, he would have had the Palmer house memories as he shared Dale's memories, he didn't know who she had taken root in --- the frog moth i look at as a seed. anybody that has that seed is a viable candidate.

that was the purpose of the box in NY. not to catch cooper, but to pull out "judy".  he could have given 2 shits about cooper/dougie. he treated them like just any other hit he sent the cheetos gang on. 

so essentially, no, sarah was not always possessed by judy. she had the potential to be, but she wasn't. And I think that in the original PLAN, Bob thought that possessing Leland and going after Sarah was MAYBE a way to do it? but that didn't work out, Sarah wasn't judy yet, and bob was merely in a human vessel. Now Bad Coop, that is a different ball of wax, that is a Doppleganger/shadow self that got out into the real world that also happened to have Bob in it, this is a new thing. Do we know if bob has actually travelled around IN a black lodge entity prior to this?

These guys all know when certain portholes open, he had 25 years to get the box ready in NY. Yes, Dale went through there, but I don't think Bad Coop either knew that or cared, he wanted Judy to get out (and that is when she did)

 

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Posted : 06/11/2017 11:22 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective

Decent summation that closely aligns with my own thoughts, Frog Moth. 

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Posted : 07/11/2017 9:18 am
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator

It is a good summation and seems a well thought out theory.  I'm just wondering if you have any evidence foe your theories or is they are your personal deductions.

It's cool either way, I'm just trying to figure it out since many of your statements in the forum come across as fact and I'm wondering if I've missed something. 

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Posted : 07/11/2017 11:23 am
(@frogmoth)
Town Visitor

not claiming it as fact so much as what i have pieced together from what i have seen and what i have taken from it. Didn't mean to come across as giving the final answer. 

1) we know Cooper was somehow involved in NY box - based on the photo of him with it

2) we know that the "experiment" went through shortly after cooper did - based on what we were shown involving the timeline with the discovery of the missing guard and the lovemaking

3) we also were shown Sarah Palmer sitting in the house watching her weird animal RIGHT after both of these things happened - which I don't think is really THAT random, that scene could have been put anywhere. but it was chosen to be put in that spot. 

4) The Dossier confirms that Sarah was the girl in episode 8 (but also confirms that other people also had this happen or at the very least had mirrored symptoms). 

5) When Cooper asked Phillip Jefferies WHO judy is. Jefferies said "you've already met her" and gave him pretty much the same coordinates he already had - which was his end game, to get those coordinates and travel there for a specified purpose. When he followed those coordinates it took him to the portal that was initially going to lead him to the palmer house - the giant moved it - and Cooper was confused when he showed up at Sheriff Station instead. 

 

 

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Posted : 07/11/2017 2:22 pm
(@frogmoth)
Town Visitor

Would also add that it was Frost himself planted the idea of Judy having an earthly union with another evil spirit as a potential end game for the parties involved (now granted that is from the point of view of Tammy, who as a character is not privy to all of the information the viewers have seen - we also don't know that Tammy is aware of "bob" in the sense that we are). 

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Posted : 07/11/2017 2:26 pm
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