1956 Girl  

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(@caemeron)
Deputy

I never really bought the idea that the girl in 1956 was Sarah Palmer, but I guess that has been confirmed. I still think, though, that others who were put to sleep by the radio broadcast likely also had frogmoths crawl into their mouths, and don't think it makes sense to link the frogmoth to what we see of Sarah in the Return/in the bar scene.

What do we make of this? (Feel free to point me to a thread wherein the topic was discussed before that I didn't read because I was confident the girl was no one we knew, if such a thorough discussion exists)

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Posted : 31/10/2017 9:35 pm
(@lucas_bracci)
Deputy

The book will be released in UK tomorrow, november 2nd.

And after that 4 or 5  more days for finding it in France in my mail box.

Such a looooong time to wait. 🙁

 

I think that on this august 5th 1956 night, many frogmoths wandered in the New Mexico desert to find welcoming opened mouth.

Including Sarah Palmer's one.

It was not a good idea this night to tune the radio on :

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Posted : 01/11/2017 4:17 am
(@roberto_bella)
Roadhouse Regular

I was somewhat surprised by the reveal but glad to have that particular mystery put to bed.

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Posted : 01/11/2017 10:58 am
(@rick_rodriguez)
Town Visitor

I always guessed that the little girl was Sarah, although as the series went on my confidence wavered. 

There's nothing in the text or show to suggest there were other frogmoths, but they could easily have inhabited others offscreen. I'm confident we'll never know. 🙂

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Posted : 01/11/2017 11:25 am
(@lucas_bracci)
Deputy
Posted by: Rick Rodriguez

I always guessed that the little girl was Sarah, although as the series went on my confidence wavered. 

There's nothing in the text or show to suggest there were other frogmoths, but they could easily have inhabited others offscreen. I'm confident we'll never know. 🙂

True.

But the same night, a dozen of other people were admitted with same symptoms in the same hospital.

Hundreds of eggs were "vomited" by Mother in 1945.

Two of the people named in that account lived in the Novacks’ neighborhood. Sarah Novack was one of them: According to her parents, they found Sarah unconscious and unresponsive in her upstairs bedroom. She came around in the backseat as they were rushing her to the hospital. According to the newspaper report, emergency room doctors found nothing wrong with the girl—it was the same with all of those they looked at that night; the paper suggests it was close to a dozen people—and she was released after a cursory examination.

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Posted : 01/11/2017 12:06 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Hi Cæmeron,
 
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
 
I agree with this:
 

I still think, though, that others who were put to sleep by the radio broadcast likely also had frogmoths crawl into their mouths,

 

but not this:

 

and don't think it makes sense to link the frogmoth to what we see of Sarah in the Return/in the bar scene.

 

Why wouldn't they be related?  Seems like cause and effect to me.  😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 01/11/2017 12:27 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: Lucas Bracci

 

I think that on this august 5th 1956 night, many frogmoths wandered in the New Mexico desert to find welcoming opened mouth.

Including Sarah Palmer's one.

It was not a good idea this night to tune the radio on :

Hi Lucas,

Cool graphic.  Is that a real radio station?

😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/11/2017 12:30 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: Roberto Bella

I was somewhat surprised by the reveal but glad to have that particular mystery put to bed.

Hi Roberto,

Me, too.  There were quite a few electrons expended here on this forum regarding this very mystery.  Now we know!  😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 01/11/2017 12:36 pm
(@rick_rodriguez)
Town Visitor

I read that passage to mean those people had passed out like little Sarah. We saw the woman at the diner, the guy at the garage. Anyone else?

But yeah, it could have been frog moths. The world is screwed! 🙂

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Posted : 01/11/2017 3:43 pm
(@rick_rodriguez)
Town Visitor

I read that passage to mean those people had passed out like little Sarah. We saw the woman at the diner, the guy at the garage. Anyone else?

But yeah, it could have been frog moths. The world is screwed! 🙂

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/11/2017 3:44 pm
(@roberto_bella)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Ric Bissell
Hi Cæmeron,
 
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
 
I agree with this:
 

I still think, though, that others who were put to sleep by the radio broadcast likely also had frogmoths crawl into their mouths,

 

but not this:

 

and don't think it makes sense to link the frogmoth to what we see of Sarah in the Return/in the bar scene.

 

Why wouldn't they be related?  Seems like cause and effect to me.  😉

- /< /\ /> -

It does seem like it, but on the other hand, in Grace Z's latest podcast interview (linked in the Part 17/18 discussion I believe) she seems to feel that Sarah wasn't inhabited by anything until some time after Laura & Leland's deaths. That's how she approached it. I think there's just enough Lynch/Frost vagueness to make an argument in either direction, as usual :->

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Posted : 01/11/2017 4:48 pm
(@caemeron)
Deputy

Ugh. I typed up a whole thing that seems to have disappeared because of whatever computer problem. Second try, which will probably be less nuanced than the first:

I watched Part 8 and thought that we would never know who the girl was, and that this was just a vignette to get at the effects of the many eggs we saw dispatched. That's the evidence for this happening to more than one person, and the Dossier seems to bolster that.

My starting point with Sarah in The Return has been my interpretation that what we see in her in that bar scene is the Experiment. I then tied that to Joudy, with the picture smashing etc. 

My issue with linking that to the frogmoth relates most pertinently to what we saw of her in s1 and s2. I am OK with this as explaining her being gifted or whatever, but something further is going on in s3. 

So, I don't like the straightforward idea of this being cause and effect. Perhaps it primed her for it, or something, but I am still thinking that she wasn't possessed by Experiment until after the same came through the box in NY.

Unless there are perhaps many of these, and the bugs take some sixty years to gestate within their hosts, or something like that. That is something interesting to think about.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/11/2017 10:19 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: Roberto Bella
Posted by: Ric Bissell
Hi Cæmeron,
 
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
 
I agree with this:
 

I still think, though, that others who were put to sleep by the radio broadcast likely also had frogmoths crawl into their mouths,

 

but not this:

 

and don't think it makes sense to link the frogmoth to what we see of Sarah in the Return/in the bar scene.

 

Why wouldn't they be related?  Seems like cause and effect to me.  😉

- /< /\ /> -

It does seem like it, but on the other hand, in Grace Z's latest podcast interview (linked in the Part 17/18 discussion I believe) she seems to feel that Sarah wasn't inhabited by anything until some time after Laura & Leland's deaths. That's how she approached it. I think there's just enough Lynch/Frost vagueness to make an argument in either direction, as usual :->

My theory for a while has been that the frog-moths lay dormant until Mother/Experiment calls upon them or wants ? them to serve whatever purpose. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/11/2017 10:45 pm
(@adam-aaron-lodestone)
Owl

SPOILER ALERT:

I think that the chapter about Sarah Palmer and what must be an indirect line of evidence in RE: the frog-moth and the girl is supported by the later commentary by Tamara Preston about Ba'al (Bob) and Joudy (inhabiting or possessing Sarah) . The male and female "demonic" entities that, if they were to come together and couple (which they did, when Bob was possessing Leland), would create an apocalyptic event. Here is what Preston had to say about this (pgs 121&122):
"Joudy, it turns out, is also the name of an ancient entity in Sumerian mythology. [This dates back to at least 3000 B.C.] The name is used to describe a species of wandering demon ~ also generically  known as an utukku ~ that had 'escaped from the underworld' and roamed freely throughout the earth, where they feasted on human flesh and allegedly, ripped the souls from their victims, which provided them with even more meaningful nourishment. They particularly thrived while feeding ~ and I quote ~ 'on human suffering'. These beings were said to appear in both male and female forms ~ 'Joudy' indicated the female, and the male was known as 'Ba'al' ~ and, while they were considered beyond dangerous individually, their resulting 'marriage' would create something far more perilous. As in: the end of the world as we know it. A few centuries later, Ba'al becomes better known, in both Christian and Islamic sources, as 'Beelzebub', a false god, or, as he's known more generally and generically today, the devil." 

This is why, in the previous text of The Secret History, Jack Parsons comes up. In our real world history, Parsons and Crowley were intent upon effectively manifesting ~ via dark sex magick rituals ~ that union and creating a female child who would embody the combined essence of both "Ba'al" and "Joudy" and bring about the "end of the world as we know it". The invocation of this real world history in the Secret History makes me think of Laura as both doomed prisoner of fate, due to her lineage, and intended "savior", potentially sent as a "buffer" or "antidote" to the dark intention of "Ba'al" (Bob) to mate with the "Joudy"-possessed Sarah and to unleash a force of evil in the world... she seemed to have two warring natures within her (much like several other characters) when she tries to warn her friends and loved ones about her darkness ("you don't know about me")... Later still, Tamara Preston speaks about the individual and collective darkness as embodied in the "Dweller On The Threshold"... a highly esoteric concept about the shadow self... Not sure where I am meandering to, here... sorry for the wander. But I think it is safe to say that Sarah Palmer is the girl possessed by the frog-moth, which was carrying Joudy's essence and that the coupling with Leland, who had been possessed by Bob from a young age (likely around the same time Sarah was possessed by Joudy), was "fated" by design of the possessing Entities. 

Just my two cents.  

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Posted : 02/11/2017 5:08 pm
(@chris_flackett)
Roadhouse Regular

Something I'm curious about: Sarah's middle name is given in the Dossier as Judith (not sure if that's been mentioned in the show before or the secret history. Memory's not what it used to be). Are we supposed to read something into this or is it a case of misdirection?

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Posted : 04/11/2017 6:52 am
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