Mercury-like substance from the center of explosion  

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(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

Wait, let's list everyone who had a hand in Morpheus' death.  ?  Tell me if I miss anyone :

Morpheus, Loki, Puck, Lyta, Kindly Ones, Orpheus, Destruction, Death, Desire, Lucifer, Nuala, Titania, Larissa.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/07/2017 9:06 pm
(@bruno_sousa_moraes)
Lodger

Hey, guys! I was worried with the possibility that my vanishing  (my last weeks have been crazy with a lot of work) would upset Oyster Bells, but it is really nice to see that Elesea-Honu is here and keeping the comic-book discussions alive.

Now I know exactly what to do to get Gaiman's attention 😛

I haven't read Sandman in a while, but your list seems right to me, Oyster Bells.

"Let's Rock!"

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 6:08 pm
(@elesea-honu)
Dweller
Posted by: Oyster Bells

Are you reading today's comics, Elesea?  ?

Hey,

Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, I've been off the computer for a couple of days.  I do read some of today's comics, but not too much of the mainstream stuff.  The kind that gets dumped in the indie/international/art section because they don't know where else to put it.  I have found some absolute stunners, but nothing that feels quite as monumental or epic or world-shattering as Sandman or Alan's stuff or Transmet or The Invisibles.  Fables comes close at times and it ended relatively recently but I felt it struggled near the end for having gone on too long.  The glory of Alan Moore is when he places these insane restrictions on himself within the comic and then completely blows apart the medium as a result.  I remember this one where each frame depicts a four storey apartment building, with each storey a different decade in time featuring the same characters.  So you're simultaneously moving through four decades of their lives.  Something you could never achieve in film because you can't have four audio streams running at the same time.

Well, you can but it wouldn't be intelligible...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 7:29 pm
(@elesea-honu)
Dweller
Posted by: Oyster Bells

Wait, let's list everyone who had a hand in Morpheus' death.  ?  Tell me if I miss anyone :

Morpheus, Loki, Puck, Lyta, Kindly Ones, Orpheus, Destruction, Death, Desire, Lucifer, Nuala, Titania, Larissa.

You could argue Delirium because she took him on that road trip in Brief Lives that got him in touch with his more human side.  Or more in touch with his need for a human side...

And we all know how that trip ended up and the price he had to pay for their destination...

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 7:33 pm
(@elesea-honu)
Dweller

Hey Bruno,

It's nice to meet you : )  My problem is that when I start talking about comics it's difficult to shut me up...  It's lovely to find people like you and Oyster Bells who have similar tastes.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 7:37 pm
(@bruno_sousa_moraes)
Lodger

Hi, Elesea! Nice to meet you too. Always lovely to find people whose interests are in accordance with ours, right?

I see you really love Alan Moore. I've only read his Watchmen and a Graphic Novel called Neonomicon, inspired by the Universe of H.P. Lovecraft. I really loved Watchmen, and still think to this day that it's not only one of the most important comic books of all time, but one of the most important pieces of fiction of the last century. But I REALLY HATED NEONOMICON. Actually, I liked the first story, but the second one was a very ugly turn, in my opinion. Have you read it? If so, what do you think of it?

Too bad Brazil is poor when it comes to exporting and translating our comic books. We're having a really good renaissance of alternative graphic novels here, and it's exciting times. Plus, one of my favorite authors in the genre of magical realism is a Brazilian veteran comic book writer and illustrator called Lourenço Mutarelli.

And about new stuff, I'd recommend The Unwritten. There's something really interesting and rewarding in the narrative world Mike Carey and Peter Gross have created. Plus, there are some cool insights in it about the meaning and power of the stories we tell. Do you know the series?

"Let's Rock!"

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 8:13 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

Comics, huh?  Loved Watchmen and I have a reasonable collection of DC titles from 20 odd years ago, plus some older stuff that survived my mom's frequent purges.

I read new titles now and again but other than the odd DC stuff, nothing really grabbed my attention, apart from Love and Rockets, and more recently, Empowered.

I don't have the time or money to spend on lots of stuff these days, nor really the space to keep them. Criticisms I have of comics in recent years is, they either have a great story or great art, rarely are the two combined.

In the art department, I see too many artists who took up the peripheral styles of some of the French guys from the 1980s but didn't learn the basics of drawing first, whereas the French artists had their drawing down cold before they started playing with style.  Or, there's the DC way of using CG models for everything, then running them through a million filters to make it look halfway decent.  There are still some good artists at DC but for the most, it's disappointing stuff, IMO.

Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez, though, they set the bar for me.  Total confidence of line and shape, complete understanding of anatomy and structure.  Then there's Adam Warren's beautiful all pencil style.  When I see stuff like that, it restores my faith in drawing skill.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 9:04 pm
(@bruno_sousa_moraes)
Lodger
Posted by: SamXTherapy

Comics, huh?  Loved Watchmen and I have a reasonable collection of DC titles from 20 odd years ago, plus some older stuff that survived my mom's frequent purges.

I read new titles now and again but other than the odd DC stuff, nothing really grabbed my attention, apart from Love and Rockets, and more recently, Empowered.

I don't have the time or money to spend on lots of stuff these days, nor really the space to keep them. Criticisms I have of comics in recent years is, they either have a great story or great art, rarely are the two combined.

In the art department, I see too many artists who took up the peripheral styles of some of the French guys from the 1980s but didn't learn the basics of drawing first, whereas the French artists had their drawing down cold before they started playing with style.  Or, there's the DC way of using CG models for everything, then running them through a million filters to make it look halfway decent.  There are still some good artists at DC but for the most, it's disappointing stuff, IMO.

Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez, though, they set the bar for me.  Total confidence of line and shape, complete understanding of anatomy and structure.  Then there's Adam Warren's beautiful all pencil style.  When I see stuff like that, it restores my faith in drawing skill.

Now that REALLY sounds like someone who knows his visual arts. I wouldn't expect less from a graphic designer 🙂

I really love experiments in style, but in the end almost every experimentation goes better when the experimentalist has a solid basis to begin with. And btw, Gilbert Hernandez is really great! Thanks for the recommendation

"Let's Rock!"

ReplyQuote
Posted : 15/07/2017 9:31 pm
(@elesea-honu)
Dweller

I'm a big Love and Rockets fan too.  I find nowadays that the comics I like most are the ones that are created, written and drawn by the same person.  I do like Unwritten as well but it's over now.

As for Alan Moore, Neonomicon is not a good place to start.  He has some very weird bits on Avatar Press that dial up to "11" on the weirdness scale and are very much an acquired taste.  But if you liked Watchmen, then he has some other stuff that's worth checking out:

  • his run on Swamp Thing
  • V for Vendetta
  • Promethea
  • The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
  • Lost Girls

But the caveat is that when he veers into horror, which he does frequently, he does not hold back.  Neil Gaiman has a pretty high threshold, but here is a lovely video of Neil telling the story of how Alan Moore managed to make Neil go all squeamish and then proceeded to nickname him "Neil 'Scary Trousers' Gaiman"

So I am aware that Alan is not always for everyone...  I looked up Lourenço Mutarelli but they haven't translated him into English.  That hasn't stopped me before.  When the new volume of Blacksad looked like it wasn't going to be translated, I got it anyway and used an internet translator to help me out.  It was hard going though... 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 3:13 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: elesea-honu
Posted by: Oyster Bells

Wait, let's list everyone who had a hand in Morpheus' death.  ?  Tell me if I miss anyone :

Morpheus, Loki, Puck, Lyta, Kindly Ones, Orpheus, Destruction, Death, Desire, Lucifer, Nuala, Titania, Larissa.

You could argue Delirium because she took him on that road trip in Brief Lives that got him in touch with his more human side.  Or more in touch with his need for a human side...

And we all know how that trip ended up and the price he had to pay for their destination...

 

Yes, totally.  Her missing Destruction ended up forcing Morpheus to kill his son.

Maan, I honestly don't think I know another story where so many threads are pulled into one to create the climax like that.  The protagonist's death such a long time coming, and caused by so many people and circumstances.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 7:27 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Bruno De Sousa Moraes

Hey, guys! I was worried with the possibility that my vanishing  (my last weeks have been crazy with a lot of work) would upset Oyster Bells, but it is really nice to see that Elesea-Honu is here and keeping the comic-book discussions alive.

Now I know exactly what to do to get Gaiman's attention 😛

I haven't read Sandman in a while, but your list seems right to me, Oyster Bells.

Huh, you want a kiss too?  ?

It's cool, Bruno, I've gone for more than a week off here since I joined.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 7:31 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: elesea-honu
Posted by: Oyster Bells

Are you reading today's comics, Elesea?  ?

Hey,

Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, I've been off the computer for a couple of days.  I do read some of today's comics, but not too much of the mainstream stuff.  The kind that gets dumped in the indie/international/art section because they don't know where else to put it.  I have found some absolute stunners, but nothing that feels quite as monumental or epic or world-shattering as Sandman or Alan's stuff or Transmet or The Invisibles.  Fables comes close at times and it ended relatively recently but I felt it struggled near the end for having gone on too long.  The glory of Alan Moore is when he places these insane restrictions on himself within the comic and then completely blows apart the medium as a result.  I remember this one where each frame depicts a four storey apartment building, with each storey a different decade in time featuring the same characters.  So you're simultaneously moving through four decades of their lives.  Something you could never achieve in film because you can't have four audio streams running at the same time.

Well, you can but it wouldn't be intelligible...

Oh yeah no worries with late replies, really. ?

Somehow I can't get into Alan Moore and Frank Miller, Elesea.  Of their caliber, I gravitate towards Gaiman, Morrison, Mark Millar, Warren Ellis, Peter Milligan.  

I wanna know how Moore differs from them.  Miller and Moore always seem to me a little too dark (and with Miller too violent too).  Is that correct, or did I just try their stuff that happened to be dark?  I don't know how to explain it, we can argue all those names above write dark things.  It's not just dark....  How about idealism where mixed into the dark stuff are some characters who hang onto the corniest belief in good?  Does Moore make such characters?  (I checked Ellis, Millar etc. all do). It's not about absence of romance and sweetness, 'cause I checked Ellis makes works completely devoid of that (and I guess that's okay with me).

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 8:05 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: SamXTherapy

Comics, huh?  Loved Watchmen and I have a reasonable collection of DC titles from 20 odd years ago, plus some older stuff that survived my mom's frequent purges.

I read new titles now and again but other than the odd DC stuff, nothing really grabbed my attention, apart from Love and Rockets, and more recently, Empowered.

I don't have the time or money to spend on lots of stuff these days, nor really the space to keep them. Criticisms I have of comics in recent years is, they either have a great story or great art, rarely are the two combined.

In the art department, I see too many artists who took up the peripheral styles of some of the French guys from the 1980s but didn't learn the basics of drawing first, whereas the French artists had their drawing down cold before they started playing with style.  Or, there's the DC way of using CG models for everything, then running them through a million filters to make it look halfway decent.  There are still some good artists at DC but for the most, it's disappointing stuff, IMO.

Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez, though, they set the bar for me.  Total confidence of line and shape, complete understanding of anatomy and structure.  Then there's Adam Warren's beautiful all pencil style.  When I see stuff like that, it restores my faith in drawing skill.

Adam Warren with the manga-influenced faces?  Really, Sam??  (That's too... cutesy for you!  ?). Alongside of that, do you like Joe Madureira, and if not why (besides the kinds of story his art always comes with).

And alongside Hernandez, do you like Mike Allred?  If not, why.

How about Paul Pope?  I thought you'd be more of a Paul Pope guy.

BTW did you know just the past few years quite a few free american comics sites popped up?  (Free manga sites have been around more than a decade.  Free franco-belgian comics sites are still yet to exist, though).  They have a wide range of the old stuff and new stuff.  (One I always use is http://readcomiconline.to/, but if you don't find something there you can google "read [title]" and if the other sites have it, it'll show up)  I looved being able to finally read certain issues of old comics that I missed.  Dots finally being connected to get a full picture after 20, 25 years.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 8:32 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

Oh, and also Sam : these free comics sites made me realize a thing about how the idea of communism can be safely implemented.  I used to think it impossible to be satisfied without owning something.  I couldn't imagine how.  For instance borrowing a book from a library, after a week or two having to return it, and not being able to pick it up conveniently anytime to look up a little detail, that's so unsatisfactory.  With free comics sites, the need for hardcopy or buying or owning completely disappears.  The only problem left is if such things are widely implemented, the world needs to find an alternative to trades and monetary system (because right now those free sites are just piracy and if extrapolated could end up collapsing the support for creators to keep on creating).

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 8:51 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

Bruno : I'm curious how Paulo Coelho is viewed in Brazil.  Is he known as a motivational, self-help author, the way the rest of the world view him and disregard all the occultism in all his books?  (I've met huge fans of his books who think all the occult stuff complete BS, yet still managed to be a huge fan)

Or is his occult side more known in Brazil? 

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2017 9:22 pm
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