The phrase "We live inside a dream" was repeated far too much by too many important characters, and that worries me.
Yes, precisely!
Not sure. I hadn't considered that Cooper may also be an invention, I came up with my hypothesis before episodes 17 and 18 were released and was acting on the assumption that Cooper is the "real" person.
In Cooper's book, he has a very bad asthma attack and dreams that a man is trying to get into his bedroom and roars at him like an animal. Clearly, this is BOB (whether BOB is "real" or not, this is clearly him appearing to Dale) and following this, there is no record for the following month. When the story resumes, there has been a murder and it's somebody Coop has been in contact with.
I took this to mean that BOB took possession of Coop while he was weakened by asthma - he was already a suitable vehicle as he had already been engaging in deviant behaviour - but your interpretation could be correct and maybe it's all in Richard's imagination. Either way, this book makes it seem pretty clear that Coop is not the clean-cut-All-American-hero that he's made out to be in season 1 & 2...
Just saw your response including info re the Autobiography..... You're on the same page as I am, so to speak!
It would seem so!!
Not sure. I hadn't considered that Cooper may also be an invention, I came up with my hypothesis before episodes 17 and 18 were released and was acting on the assumption that Cooper is the "real" person.
In Cooper's book, he has a very bad asthma attack and dreams that a man is trying to get into his bedroom and roars at him like an animal. Clearly, this is BOB (whether BOB is "real" or not, this is clearly him appearing to Dale) and following this, there is no record for the following month. When the story resumes, there has been a murder and it's somebody Coop has been in contact with.
I took this to mean that BOB took possession of Coop while he was weakened by asthma - he was already a suitable vehicle as he had already been engaging in deviant behaviour - but your interpretation could be correct and maybe it's all in Richard's imagination. Either way, this book makes it seem pretty clear that Coop is not the clean-cut-All-American-hero that he's made out to be in season 1 & 2...
You raise some good points! Either way, we both agree on the most important point, the real Cooper was not an all out good person.
Or it could be that the ending was the dream and that everything else was real.
Of course, anything is possible. The entire original series and the Return just seem to me like mainly a dream sequence, though. The characters and situations are just too "out there" for it to be reality, in my opinion. He ("Cooper") even says in Part 17, "I hope to see you all again - all of you" and "see you at the curtain call." This tells me these are all characters he has made up in his head during his dream(s).
Yes... to me, this is exactly what is meant by the "see you all again" and "curtain call" lines. And you're right... there are WAY too many scenes and dialog that defies reality. Personally, I'm liking more and more the Mulholland Drive aspect to Twin Peaks with Richard's disturbing psyche being like Betty's.The only other show that this reminds me of is The Mentalist where similar un-real stuff seems to happen although the surrealism in this show was much more subtle than what Lynch does.
Or it could be that the ending was the dream and that everything else was real.
Of course, anything is possible. The entire original series and the Return just seem to me like mainly a dream sequence, though. The characters and situations are just too "out there" for it to be reality, in my opinion. He ("Cooper") even says in Part 17, "I hope to see you all again - all of you" and "see you at the curtain call." This tells me these are all characters he has made up in his head during his dream(s).
Yes... to me, this is exactly what is meant by the "see you all again" and "curtain call" lines. And you're right... there are WAY too many scenes and dialog that defies reality. Personally, I'm liking more and more the Mulholland Drive aspect to Twin Peaks with Richard's disturbing psyche being like Betty's.The only other show that this reminds me of is The Mentalist where similar un-real stuff seems to happen although the surrealism in this show was much more subtle than what Lynch does.
Mike, that is exactly what I was thinking - this is very much like Mulholland Drive in that Diane Selwyn was a troubled murderer who created a dream world (while she was truly asleep) in which she was "Betty." Betty and good Coop are very similar in that they are pure, all-American, and trying to solve crimes/help people. Diane Selwyn wakes up from her dream to remember who/what she is - a murderer. She then kills herself, because she can't accept this reality and horrible culmination of herself and what she has become. Richard is very much like Diane Selwyn in that in Parts 17 and 18, he realizes who/what he really is. Rather than being the all-American detective, he is a troubled, mentally ill murderer. In some ways, I believe Lynch created the Mulholland Drive story because he couldn't finish what he started with Twin Peaks seasons 1 and 2. Thus, in some ways, the Mulholland Drive theme is what Twin Peaks would have become if it hadn't ended abruptly after Season 2.
The main difference is that I believe "Cooper" (Richard) was a schizophrenic, while Diane Selwyn was just a naive woman who "snapped" when pushed too far over the edge with her career failures and manipulative/narcissistic lover, Camilla.
Also, in Mulholland Drive, there were many quirky characters throughout Betty's dream (the Cowboy, Coco, the man drinking the Cappuccino, etc.) While these were Betty's fictional dream characters, they were all based on people she encountered in real life as Diane Selwyn (they all appeared at the party where Adam and Camilla announce their engagement). Therefore, it is possible that all of the Twin Peaks dream characters that "Cooper" (Richard) has created were based on real people he had encountered in his life as a serial rapist/murderer. Crazy stuff...
Or it could be that the ending was the dream and that everything else was real.
Of course, anything is possible. The entire original series and the Return just seem to me like mainly a dream sequence, though. The characters and situations are just too "out there" for it to be reality, in my opinion. He ("Cooper") even says in Part 17, "I hope to see you all again - all of you" and "see you at the curtain call." This tells me these are all characters he has made up in his head during his dream(s).
Yes... to me, this is exactly what is meant by the "see you all again" and "curtain call" lines. And you're right... there are WAY too many scenes and dialog that defies reality. Personally, I'm liking more and more the Mulholland Drive aspect to Twin Peaks with Richard's disturbing psyche being like Betty's.The only other show that this reminds me of is The Mentalist where similar un-real stuff seems to happen although the surrealism in this show was much more subtle than what Lynch does.
Mike, that is exactly what I was thinking - this is very much like Mulholland Drive in that Diane Selwyn was a troubled murderer who created a dream world (while she was truly asleep) in which she was "Betty." Betty and good Coop are very similar in that they are pure, all-American, and trying to solve crimes/help people. Diane Selwyn wakes up from her dream to remember who/what she is - a murderer. She then kills herself, because she can't accept this reality and horrible culmination of herself and what she has become. Richard is very much like Diane Selwyn in that in Parts 17 and 18, he realizes who/what he really is. Rather than being the all-American detective, he is a troubled, mentally ill murderer. In some ways, I believe Lynch created the Mulholland Drive story because he couldn't finish what he started with Twin Peaks seasons 1 and 2. Thus, in some ways, the Mulholland Drive theme is what Twin Peaks would have become if it hadn't ended abruptly after Season 2.
The main difference is that I believe "Cooper" (Richard) was a schizophrenic, while Diane Selwyn was just a naive woman who "snapped" when pushed too far over the edge with her career failures and manipulative/narcissistic lover, Camilla.
Also, in Mulholland Drive, there were many quirky characters throughout Betty's dream (the Cowboy, Coco, the man drinking the Cappuccino, etc.) While these were Betty's fictional dream characters, they were all based on people she encountered in real life as Diane Selwyn (they all appeared at the party where Adam and Camilla announce their engagement). Therefore, it is possible that all of the Twin Peaks dream characters that "Cooper" (Richard) has created were based on real people he had encountered in his life as a serial rapist/murderer. Crazy stuff...
Sorry... possible, but not likely. There is not enough hard evidence to support this theory, and all of the evidence we have is that it is not.
imo it's very likely. If you read Cooper's book it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Coop is partly evil. So at the very least, we have a guy who is committing rape and murder and has been since he was a kid. Whether he's possessed or has split personality is up for debate though.
Hi there, this is also my first post on the forum after lurking for some time.
I watched the last two episodes last night have felt pretty low myself, because while I'm not sure how I feel about your idea that Cooper/Richard killed as BOB, I do feel that the 'living inside a dream' lines hinted that all we'd seen before Odessa had potentially been a dream of Richard's. I wonder if it's possible that the journey he'd been on, and references to 'Richard and Linda' had been something along the lines of his subconscious trying to bring him out of the dream and remind him who he really is, the final destination being a dream version of the hotel room he had actually been sleeping in.
This wouldn't explain the lights going off in what we know as the Palmer home at the very end, why Carrie Page screams (does she really have a link to Laura Palmer), or why Richard had such an elaborate and complicated dream. The schizophrenia possibility would maybe account for some of this. Is Richard even a real FBI agent?! It would also require us to believe that everything we loved and had invested in about characters and events ins Seasons 1-3 weren't real.
As Jack mentioned in an earlier comment, that there's a horrifying possibility that Agent Cooper was never Agent Cooper, but is instead a man named Richard, has really unsettled me.
I'm hoping that reaching out on this forum might help me get over this!
Ollie - while I only just began posting here myself, welcome to the forum!
I completely agree with you that the idea that Cooper was never really Cooper as we know and love him and is, instead, a serial rapist/murderer named Richard is extremely unsettling. And frankly, downright depressing. The entire time I have watched the series and FWWM over the years, it never occurred to me that Cooper, as we know him, may not be a real person. It wasn't until I delved into the Agent Cooper book that I began to see things differently. Then, Part 17 & 18 blew the proverbial doors off for me in formulating my final theory.
You made the comment:
"It would also require us to believe that everything we loved and had invested in about characters and events ins Seasons 1-3 weren't real."
Yes, I agree completely. For some people, myself included, the characters of Twin Peaks are so beloved and almost feel like family or old friends. The town had a mystical, amazing quality and brought out emotions in us that few things ever did before or ever will again. With that said, I believe David Lynch would have no problem taking that all away from us. Here is why: Mulholland Drive was originally supposed to be a T.V. series, rather than a movie. We would have become invested in "Betty," "Rita," "Coco," etc. over who knows how many seasons?! And we would have accepted Betty's dream world as a successful actress in Hollywood and her amateur sleuthing to be reality. We know how that story ends, though - it all would have come crashing down on us after the big reveal that it was all a dream, Betty never existed, and our heroine is, in fact, a troubled young woman named Diane Selwyn who has had her lover murdered. This, in my mind, tells me my theory on Twin Peaks is very much something the creators would have been extremely capable of pulling over on us. I guess I can't speak as much about Frost, but Lynch for sure!
All that said, as others have stated on this thread and elsewhere, each and every one of us has the ability to regard Twin Peaks lore in whichever way we choose. We don't have to accept theories or ideas that do not fit our own creative vision of what truly occurred. While our own theories may not be what the creators had in mind, they are OURS and we can hold onto them as long as we wish. That is the true beauty of the type of art that Lynch creates.
I think that the reason for Cooper to say "i hope i see you again,all of you" and "There will be some changes" is:
At this pont, coop is at the sheriffstation, but simultaniously (in episode 17) at the other side and saves Laura, wich means there soon will be no reason for him to know the people in twin peaks.
SO, because of that, the only two persons that knew him before TP, Diane and Cole, follows him from the sheriffstation and to the portal (the door at Great Northern), and he needs Diane there for some reason, and therefore he meets her at the curtaincall.
Or it could be that the ending was the dream and that everything else was real.
Of course, anything is possible. The entire original series and the Return just seem to me like mainly a dream sequence, though. The characters and situations are just too "out there" for it to be reality, in my opinion. He ("Cooper") even says in Part 17, "I hope to see you all again - all of you" and "see you at the curtain call." This tells me these are all characters he has made up in his head during his dream(s).
Yes... to me, this is exactly what is meant by the "see you all again" and "curtain call" lines. And you're right... there are WAY too many scenes and dialog that defies reality. Personally, I'm liking more and more the Mulholland Drive aspect to Twin Peaks with Richard's disturbing psyche being like Betty's.The only other show that this reminds me of is The Mentalist where similar un-real stuff seems to happen although the surrealism in this show was much more subtle than what Lynch does.
Mike, that is exactly what I was thinking - this is very much like Mulholland Drive in that Diane Selwyn was a troubled murderer who created a dream world (while she was truly asleep) in which she was "Betty." Betty and good Coop are very similar in that they are pure, all-American, and trying to solve crimes/help people. Diane Selwyn wakes up from her dream to remember who/what she is - a murderer. She then kills herself, because she can't accept this reality and horrible culmination of herself and what she has become. Richard is very much like Diane Selwyn in that in Parts 17 and 18, he realizes who/what he really is. Rather than being the all-American detective, he is a troubled, mentally ill murderer. In some ways, I believe Lynch created the Mulholland Drive story because he couldn't finish what he started with Twin Peaks seasons 1 and 2. Thus, in some ways, the Mulholland Drive theme is what Twin Peaks would have become if it hadn't ended abruptly after Season 2.
The main difference is that I believe "Cooper" (Richard) was a schizophrenic, while Diane Selwyn was just a naive woman who "snapped" when pushed too far over the edge with her career failures and manipulative/narcissistic lover, Camilla.
Also, in Mulholland Drive, there were many quirky characters throughout Betty's dream (the Cowboy, Coco, the man drinking the Cappuccino, etc.) While these were Betty's fictional dream characters, they were all based on people she encountered in real life as Diane Selwyn (they all appeared at the party where Adam and Camilla announce their engagement). Therefore, it is possible that all of the Twin Peaks dream characters that "Cooper" (Richard) has created were based on real people he had encountered in his life as a serial rapist/murderer. Crazy stuff...
Sorry... possible, but not likely. There is not enough hard evidence to support this theory, and all of the evidence we have is that it is not.
Darren, no one really knows what the creators had in mind at this point. Things could be interpreted in so many different way. As it relates to anything Lynch creates, I don't believe there is anything that can be construed as "hard evidence," though. He sends us on wild goose chases, creates red herrings, and often bounces between reality, dreams/different reamls of existence. Again, this is my opinion and if you believe there is evidence to the contrary, I am interested to hear what that is. Will you provide a few examples?
Or it could be that the ending was the dream and that everything else was real.
Of course, anything is possible. The entire original series and the Return just seem to me like mainly a dream sequence, though. The characters and situations are just too "out there" for it to be reality, in my opinion. He ("Cooper") even says in Part 17, "I hope to see you all again - all of you" and "see you at the curtain call." This tells me these are all characters he has made up in his head during his dream(s).
Yes... to me, this is exactly what is meant by the "see you all again" and "curtain call" lines. And you're right... there are WAY too many scenes and dialog that defies reality. Personally, I'm liking more and more the Mulholland Drive aspect to Twin Peaks with Richard's disturbing psyche being like Betty's.The only other show that this reminds me of is The Mentalist where similar un-real stuff seems to happen although the surrealism in this show was much more subtle than what Lynch does.
Mike, that is exactly what I was thinking - this is very much like Mulholland Drive in that Diane Selwyn was a troubled murderer who created a dream world (while she was truly asleep) in which she was "Betty." Betty and good Coop are very similar in that they are pure, all-American, and trying to solve crimes/help people. Diane Selwyn wakes up from her dream to remember who/what she is - a murderer. She then kills herself, because she can't accept this reality and horrible culmination of herself and what she has become. Richard is very much like Diane Selwyn in that in Parts 17 and 18, he realizes who/what he really is. Rather than being the all-American detective, he is a troubled, mentally ill murderer. In some ways, I believe Lynch created the Mulholland Drive story because he couldn't finish what he started with Twin Peaks seasons 1 and 2. Thus, in some ways, the Mulholland Drive theme is what Twin Peaks would have become if it hadn't ended abruptly after Season 2.
The main difference is that I believe "Cooper" (Richard) was a schizophrenic, while Diane Selwyn was just a naive woman who "snapped" when pushed too far over the edge with her career failures and manipulative/narcissistic lover, Camilla.
Also, in Mulholland Drive, there were many quirky characters throughout Betty's dream (the Cowboy, Coco, the man drinking the Cappuccino, etc.) While these were Betty's fictional dream characters, they were all based on people she encountered in real life as Diane Selwyn (they all appeared at the party where Adam and Camilla announce their engagement). Therefore, it is possible that all of the Twin Peaks dream characters that "Cooper" (Richard) has created were based on real people he had encountered in his life as a serial rapist/murderer. Crazy stuff...
Sorry... possible, but not likely. There is not enough hard evidence to support this theory, and all of the evidence we have is that it is not.
Darren, no one really knows what the creators had in mind at this point. Things could be interpreted in so many different way. As it relates to anything Lynch creates, I don't believe there is anything that can be construed as "hard evidence," though. He sends us on wild goose chases, creates red herrings, and often bounces between reality, dreams/different reamls of existence. Again, this is my opinion and if you believe there is evidence to the contrary, I am interested to hear what that is. Will you provide a few examples?
I agree that there is no 'one' way to interpret Lynch's work, although, there usually is a unifying theory as to what the works represent. Take Mulholland Drive as an example, as the most fully formed 'puzzle box' film Lynch has created, and the one in which there are fully formed hypothesis for. You could interpret a lot of things a few ways in this film, but once you unlock the 'puzzle', interpretation becomes largely pointless, because it becomes self-evident as to what the narrative is trying to tell us - as you said in your post, what the creator had in mind. That is not to say there is only ever one interpretation, if you find another, I am sure that David Lynch would say 'That's Great!'. The 'evidence' that is being cited to conjecture towards Agent Dale Cooper being a schizophrenic serial killer as posited in this thread seems, to me, based on very very flimsy, almost anecdotal, mostly supported by the narrative in the Diary / Tapes of Dale Cooper. There are hours and hours and hours - around 45? - of Twin Peaks evidence that points to the world of Twin Peaks being 'real' within our understanding of it as a piece of filmic fiction, albeit containing a meta-narrative that we are now currently unsure of - and which is open to interpretation - because of the ending / part 18.
I welcome your hypothesis, but I do not support or share it 🙂
By the way I do have my own hypothesis, not quite fully formed, that I have put together for a large amount of The Return, that doesn't mean I'm married to it.
This is the joy of art that's wrapped in mystery - we can all come to whatever conclusions we want. So long as no one's being pushy about it, the more theories the merrier.
I would say though, don't discount the books simply because they're not the TV show... Those books are canon. David asked Jennifer to write the Diary and not only approved it but used excerpts from it throughout the second season. Dale's book is by Scott Frost, who also wrote two episodes of the TV show. He would have a pretty clear vision of who Cooper is as a character and yet he chose to pack that book full of incriminating plot twists. You'd think that as the main character, Cooper would be too precious for David and Mark to approve something like that unless they felt comfortable with it.
Fire walk with