Just an Idea about the Return to Vegas  

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(@charlie)
Roadhouse Regular

If Coop knew his actions would erase the reality that we know as season 3, or that season 3 was a figment of his mind, why would he send himself or a double (regardless it doesn't matter for this point) back to Vegas to be with Janey and the boy?  It would be a waste and you would know it.  I think this is evidence that even to Coop, his actions in episode 17/18 would likely not eliminate the history created throughout the return.

Not saying this is Earth shattering stuff, but it does add depth to many of the finale discussions.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 12:54 pm
(@julie_loader)
Deputy
Posted by: Charlie

If Coop knew his actions would erase the reality that we know as season 3, or that season 3 was a figment of his mind, why would he send himself or a double (regardless it doesn't matter for this point) back to Vegas to be with Janey and the boy?  It would be a waste and you would know it.  I think this is evidence that even to Coop, his actions in episode 17/18 would likely not eliminate the history created throughout the return.

Not saying this is Earth shattering stuff, but it does add depth to many of the finale discussions.

Yes. I agree.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 4:46 pm
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular

18 was about the failure of completion, 17 was the attempt at it; then when Cooper says 'what year is it?', its sort of explaining how the 25 years in between have passed in Odessa/Twin Peaks 'sleepwalking' and ignoring the problem with Laura, smoothing it over.  The problem is the very attempt to 'complete' it or come to some kind of 'sleepwalking' state of rest where the problems are solved once and for all, or just outright ignored and secretly accepted(like what happened at Laura's funeral that Bobby pointed out in season one episode 4; or even the demand among the public and the studios to 'find Laura's killer' once and for all, it ruined the show and 'smoothed over' the problem, thus the society enters 'sleepwalking' for 25 years and we get the bad part of season 2 for 25 years).  A lot of these theories, like the 'dream one', are attempts to recover up the impact of 18, the proper return of Twin Peaks, which was centered around the mystery surrounding Laura Palmer and her murder, what this reveals about society, the impossibility to hide in one small town from the problem, etc...then these theories are repeating the mistake that was blown apart in the final scene with 'what year is it?', Laura is back with the scream, cannot ignore the problem, the 'sleepwalking' reality begins to disintegrate.  What was Dougie and Mr. C, but two Coopers trying different ways to avoid the problem of Twin Peaks, with Dougie just ignoring it and trying to pretend everything is great, that he made it 'home' that is 'anywhere but Philadelphia', without those problems, came to rest at home, etc; and Mr. C as trying to forcibly eliminate the problem(looking for coordinates, determined to find and finish 'Judy'/negativity/the problem once and for all, he wanted to possess that 'mother symbol', thought it was Judy, etc.).

Sort of telling that these theories are popping up, trying to start the 'sleepwalking' again(it was all a dream, forget it, etc., everything is great)....and it vindicates the finale in this way as something that has an idea of whats at stake here, and what the problem is....

In this context, then what is the Dougie-Tulpa that was sent to Vegas?  Finale Cooper's double, the agent in the finale dealing with the negativity and problems, and his doppelganger wanting to rest at home(Dougie-Cooper, like ET, wants to go 'home', as he always says); or is the Dougie-Tulpa, which was made before the 'completion' was attempted still stuck in the same Dougie-Mr. C loop that repeated again and again for 25 years(time and time again, BOB, BOB, BOB, etc.)?

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Posted : 02/10/2017 4:53 pm
(@julie_loader)
Deputy

Coop asked Gerrard to "make another one" , a replacement for himself because he knew he couldn't continue in that role but knew that Janey and sonny needed and deserved it. 

Janey knew Coop wasn't Dougie at his goodbye scene at the casino. " you're not Dougie?" , "whoever you are, thank you "

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Posted : 02/10/2017 5:13 pm
Charlie liked
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Julie Loader

Coop asked Gerrard to "make another one" , a replacement for himself because he knew he couldn't continue in that role but knew that Janey and sonny needed and deserved it. 

Janey knew Coop wasn't Dougie at his goodbye scene at the casino. " you're not Dougie?" , "whoever you are, thank you "

Right, but the 'tulpa' who showed up at Dougie's house is not Dougie either, right?  This new tulpa was created from old Agent Cooper who woke up in the hospital, while the original Dougie was made from Mr. C.  If the tulpas are reversed 'spiritually'(the reverse fingerprint, etc.), then the tulpa arriving for Janey E and Sonny Jim is what? Evil Cooper from the end of season 2 laughing crazily? Old Agent Cooper's 'evil' side? A domestic version of the 'finale Cooper'. Maybe the seeds are not reversed as good/evil, but neutral/active(Dougie, Mr. C)?

We saw in the red room that Mr. C was burning brightly with his eyes turned white(when they were normally black), he was contained to positivity/white and thus 'burning' over it.....and it is in relation to this Mr. C that the 'electricity' for the new Dougie clone is created in the red room.  Is the 'Mr. C' part of Cooper, what role does it play here with the new Dougie tulpa?   And this all happened before the finale, so if the new Dougie tulpa was created from the 'hospital' Cooper seeking completion, but has not gone through 'Judy' as the finale Cooper did, then would he not go mad again, have that Mr. C side as an unresolved 'burning' presence, a negativity that he has not confronted, which thus takes control over him again?  Couldnt we have Agent Cooper-Dougie in Vegas as a ruthless organized criminal who ends up doing harm to Janey E and Sonny Jim, when he goes mad seeking completion, or imposes on them a life of crime?

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Posted : 02/10/2017 5:51 pm
(@julie_loader)
Deputy

No, I  believe that the last Dougie that Gerrard made was the same as the one Janey married but improved to be like Coop because Janey and Sonny fell in love with that kind of person.... like Coop but not Coop.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 6:06 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator

Very good point Charlie.  More to ponder and confuse.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 8:24 pm
(@dopplearb)
RR Diner Patron

Hi Murat!

Thank you for your posts on this and other threads. You always have such in depth, thoughtful, original and articulate things to say, theories to expound and ideas to express. Just wanted to say that I enjoy reading them and keep them coming!

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Posted : 02/10/2017 9:49 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: dopplearb

Hi Murat!

Thank you for your posts on this and other threads. You always have such in depth, thoughtful, original and articulate things to say, theories to expound and ideas to express. Just wanted to say that I enjoy reading them and keep them coming!

Murat is definitely on the "I gotta buy that guy a beer" list.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 10:01 pm
dopplearb liked
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Hi Charlie,
 
Posted by: Charlie

If Coop knew his actions would erase the reality that we know as season 3, or that season 3 was a figment of his mind, why would he send himself or a double (regardless it doesn't matter for this point) back to Vegas to be with Janey and the boy?  It would be a waste and you would know it.  I think this is evidence that even to Coop, his actions in episode 17/18 would likely not eliminate the history created throughout the return.

Not saying this is Earth shattering stuff, but it does add depth to many of the finale discussions.

Parallel worlds are parallel, not mutually exclusive.  All possible possibilities happen, just in different universes.  The multiverse is a magically mysterious marvel!

😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 04/10/2017 10:56 am
(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: Brandy Fisher
Posted by: dopplearb

Hi Murat!

Thank you for your posts on this and other threads. You always have such in depth, thoughtful, original and articulate things to say, theories to expound and ideas to express. Just wanted to say that I enjoy reading them and keep them coming!

Murat is definitely on the "I gotta buy that guy a beer" list.

Or perhaps coffee and a slice of pie? 

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Posted : 05/10/2017 4:20 am
(@luke)
Town Visitor
Posted by: Ric Bissell
Hi Charlie,
 
Posted by: Charlie

If Coop knew his actions would erase the reality that we know as season 3, or that season 3 was a figment of his mind, why would he send himself or a double (regardless it doesn't matter for this point) back to Vegas to be with Janey and the boy?  It would be a waste and you would know it.  I think this is evidence that even to Coop, his actions in episode 17/18 would likely not eliminate the history created throughout the return.

Not saying this is Earth shattering stuff, but it does add depth to many of the finale discussions.

Parallel worlds are parallel, not mutually exclusive.  All possible possibilities happen, just in different universes.  The multiverse is a magically mysterious marvel!

😉

- /< /\ /> -

This came back to my obsessed mind:

“So we dream on. Thus we invent our lives. We give ourselves a sainted mother, we make our father a hero; and someone’s older brother and someone’s older sister – they become our heroes too. We invent what we love and what we fear. There is always a brave lost brother – and a little lost sister, too. We dream on and on: the best hotel, the perfect family, the resort life. And our dreams escape us almost as vividly as we can imagine them… That’s what happens, like it or not. And because that’s what happens, this is what we need: we need a good, smart bear… Coach Bob knew it all along: you’ve got to get obsessed and stay obsessed. You have to keep passing the open windows.”
John Irving, The Hotel New Hampshire

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Posted : 06/10/2017 6:25 am
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