Coop's mistake  

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(@shrrrrrrrrrrk)
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Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing. 

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Posted : 21/09/2017 11:55 pm
(@cooperthumbs)
Lodger

I think I am going to be stewing for a long time to come 🙂

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Posted : 22/09/2017 7:13 am
(@buttercup)
Deputy

Diane just had sex with a man who looked exactly like her rapist.  Even though she entered into sex with Cooper willingly, that was a lot for her to bear.  She might have switched to Linda in order to deal with those emotions or to escape them altogether.  Cooper is stronger emotionally, and doesn't have to become someone else. 

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Posted : 24/09/2017 7:52 pm
(@moonchild)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing. 

My interpretation of it was this:

Coop crossed to the other timeline or dimension because that is what the fireman told him to do (remember 430 and Richard and Linda) so we have to assume that the FIreman already knew we would have gotten to this at some point and that THIS IS exactly where Coop and Diane were meant to be. A lot of the people who watch the show seemed to forget that that was the Fireman's plan since the beginning: 430 ,Richard, Linda so Coop is not lost and the other personalities are not a mistake. He is exactly where he is meant to be.

this is the timeline/dimension where NOT ONLY  he will find Laura but also where he will trap and destroy Judy. there is no reason for him to cross over again. This is where as per the plan he needs to be.

Once in this new reality Diane and Cooper undergo a ritual similar to the whore of Babylon ritual basically a sex ritual that attracts evil (see Aleister Crowley Moonchild or see The secret History of TP by Frost where he talks about the ritual carried out during the trinity test which supposedly is what created the Mother) therefore now attracts her as per the couple having sex in the loft and Mother appearing in the box. We can assume now almost for certain that Mother is attracted by sex and suffering (see rape and abuse in Laura)

Why did Diane become Linda? Because after the ritual and the arrival of judy in this world things started to change. Remember Cooper is not always cooper but definitely shares some traits with all the others: dougie, mr c, dougie 2, coop , richard...

Same goes for Diane. In this reality where Laura has been hidden (and her way too painful memory erased) and became Carrie Page,  Diane is now Linda and Coop is Richard. Why does he remember Cooper? He doesnt really... he is slowly losing himself and his memories from the other reality... he is confused but one thing he remembers! he needs to find Laura. The only way to do that is to follow his instinct and "FIND LAURA" just like Leland told him in the red room not long before.

He finds her but the more time he spends in this reality the more he loses himself and the knowledge of time. 

My personal interpretation of the ending is that this reality is meant to be destroyed together with Judy who is now trapped into it. The only way for this to work and destroy evil is if Laura gets to the house and realizes she is LAURA. This is important because Laura is the only one powerful enough to kill her but Judy has hidden Laura and changed her name so that Laura doesnt know why she was created anymore therefore she is useless.

Once she realizes who she is Judy is destroyed. But with her that whole reality is destroyed too! Because for the other reality( TWIN PEAKS reality ) to exist this one needs to disappear and with it Coop Laura Sarah Judy and the rest.

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Posted : 25/09/2017 1:12 am
(@colinblackrock)
Lodger
Posted by: MoonChild
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing. 

My interpretation of it was this:

Coop crossed to the other timeline or dimension because that is what the fireman told him to do (remember 430 and Richard and Linda) so we have to assume that the FIreman already knew we would have gotten to this at some point and that THIS IS exactly where Coop and Diane were meant to be. A lot of the people who watch the show seemed to forget that that was the Fireman's plan since the beginning: 430 ,Richard, Linda so Coop is not lost and the other personalities are not a mistake. He is exactly where he is meant to be.

this is the timeline/dimension where NOT ONLY  he will find Laura but also where he will trap and destroy Judy. there is no reason for him to cross over again. This is where as per the plan he needs to be.

Once in this new reality Diane and Cooper undergo a ritual similar to the whore of Babylon ritual basically a sex ritual that attracts evil (see Aleister Crowley Moonchild or see The secret History of TP by Frost where he talks about the ritual carried out during the trinity test which supposedly is what created the Mother) therefore now attracts her as per the couple having sex in the loft and Mother appearing in the box. We can assume now almost for certain that Mother is attracted by sex and suffering (see rape and abuse in Laura)

Why did Diane become Linda? Because after the ritual and the arrival of judy in this world things started to change. Remember Cooper is not always cooper but definitely shares some traits with all the others: dougie, mr c, dougie 2, coop , richard...

Same goes for Diane. In this reality where Laura has been hidden (and her way too painful memory erased) and became Carrie Page,  Diane is now Linda and Coop is Richard. Why does he remember Cooper? He doesnt really... he is slowly losing himself and his memories from the other reality... he is confused but one thing he remembers! he needs to find Laura. The only way to do that is to follow his instinct and "FIND LAURA" just like Leland told him in the red room not long before.

He finds her but the more time he spends in this reality the more he loses himself and the knowledge of time. 

My personal interpretation of the ending is that this reality is meant to be destroyed together with Judy who is now trapped into it. The only way for this to work and destroy evil is if Laura gets to the house and realizes she is LAURA. This is important because Laura is the only one powerful enough to kill her but Judy has hidden Laura and changed her name so that Laura doesnt know why she was created anymore therefore she is useless.

Once she realizes who she is Judy is destroyed. But with her that whole reality is destroyed too! Because for the other reality( TWIN PEAKS reality ) to exist this one needs to disappear and with it Coop Laura Sarah Judy and the rest.

This is a solid interpretation of what's going on I think. I agree that in the 430 world, which seems in many ways to be our world, to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, Laura, Coop and Diane seem to be dragging their original personalities into this world, but that they're being stripped away and they're succumbing to the new identities. I agree totally about the differing trajectories of awakening in the final scene. Coop is devolving into Richard as Carrie is evolving into Laura. 

I'm not sure I agree with the Judy being defeated thesis. It feels emotionally contrary to what we've seen. Laura's awakening isn't a moment of triumph, she's exposed to the horror that is the truth of her life. When the lights go out and we hear Sarah call to Laura, it feels as though all that's been defeated is the persona of Carrie. Laura doesn't seem liberated, and the last action of Judy's that we see is to draw Laura back into the cycle of pain. 

There's an interesting theme in the Return of characters climbing through different levels of consciousness towards awakening, usually painful awakening.

Laura, having found who she is, seems to be passing on this information to Coop in the credit sequence.

Audrey seems to be going through the same process.

Audrey, I'm sure, as I've posted about before, is clawing her way towards the realization that she is a product of Sherilyn Fenn. That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?

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Posted : 25/09/2017 6:57 am
(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: colinblackrock
Posted by: MoonChild
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing. 

My interpretation of it was this:

Coop crossed to the other timeline or dimension because that is what the fireman told him to do (remember 430 and Richard and Linda) so we have to assume that the FIreman already knew we would have gotten to this at some point and that THIS IS exactly where Coop and Diane were meant to be. A lot of the people who watch the show seemed to forget that that was the Fireman's plan since the beginning: 430 ,Richard, Linda so Coop is not lost and the other personalities are not a mistake. He is exactly where he is meant to be.

this is the timeline/dimension where NOT ONLY  he will find Laura but also where he will trap and destroy Judy. there is no reason for him to cross over again. This is where as per the plan he needs to be.

Once in this new reality Diane and Cooper undergo a ritual similar to the whore of Babylon ritual basically a sex ritual that attracts evil (see Aleister Crowley Moonchild or see The secret History of TP by Frost where he talks about the ritual carried out during the trinity test which supposedly is what created the Mother) therefore now attracts her as per the couple having sex in the loft and Mother appearing in the box. We can assume now almost for certain that Mother is attracted by sex and suffering (see rape and abuse in Laura)

Why did Diane become Linda? Because after the ritual and the arrival of judy in this world things started to change. Remember Cooper is not always cooper but definitely shares some traits with all the others: dougie, mr c, dougie 2, coop , richard...

Same goes for Diane. In this reality where Laura has been hidden (and her way too painful memory erased) and became Carrie Page,  Diane is now Linda and Coop is Richard. Why does he remember Cooper? He doesnt really... he is slowly losing himself and his memories from the other reality... he is confused but one thing he remembers! he needs to find Laura. The only way to do that is to follow his instinct and "FIND LAURA" just like Leland told him in the red room not long before.

He finds her but the more time he spends in this reality the more he loses himself and the knowledge of time. 

My personal interpretation of the ending is that this reality is meant to be destroyed together with Judy who is now trapped into it. The only way for this to work and destroy evil is if Laura gets to the house and realizes she is LAURA. This is important because Laura is the only one powerful enough to kill her but Judy has hidden Laura and changed her name so that Laura doesnt know why she was created anymore therefore she is useless.

Once she realizes who she is Judy is destroyed. But with her that whole reality is destroyed too! Because for the other reality( TWIN PEAKS reality ) to exist this one needs to disappear and with it Coop Laura Sarah Judy and the rest.

This is a solid interpretation of what's going on I think. I agree that in the 430 world, which seems in many ways to be our world, to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, Laura, Coop and Diane seem to be dragging their original personalities into this world, but that they're being stripped away and they're succumbing to the new identities. I agree totally about the differing trajectories of awakening in the final scene. Coop is devolving into Richard as Carrie is evolving into Laura. 

I'm not sure I agree with the Judy being defeated thesis. It feels emotionally contrary to what we've seen. Laura's awakening isn't a moment of triumph, she's exposed to the horror that is the truth of her life. When the lights go out and we hear Sarah call to Laura, it feels as though all that's been defeated is the persona of Carrie. Laura doesn't seem liberated, and the last action of Judy's that we see is to draw Laura back into the cycle of pain. 

There's an interesting theme in the Return of characters climbing through different levels of consciousness towards awakening, usually painful awakening.

Laura, having found who she is, seems to be passing on this information to Coop in the credit sequence.

Audrey seems to be going through the same process.

Audrey, I'm sure, as I've posted about before, is clawing her way towards the realization that she is a product of Sherilyn Fenn. That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?

This is the first I've heard about there being a Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's home. That is wack. Can you possibly post a screenshot?

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Posted : 25/09/2017 10:41 am
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular

A TP VHS in Carrie's house??? Wild!! I will try to find it. 

Nothing serious to add here except the observation that during the sex scene, which Cooper didn't seem to be enjoying or really engaging in much (Dougie enjoyed the scene w Janey E a lot more, seemed to me), look at how Diane is rubbing and covering Coop's face with her hands. It reminds me of the two times the Woodsmen smothered Mr. C's face in blood after he was shot. The Woodsmen were yanking Bob out Or putting him back into Mr. C or something like that. Maybe Diane's hands were performing a similar ritual with some other spirit and Coop. (I don't necessarily mean this literally; rather, the hand smothering during the sex might just be evoking the Woodsmen. Eh??)

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Posted : 25/09/2017 11:17 am
(@jumping-man)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: colinblackrock

 

That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?

This is the first time i use the words FAKE NEWS this year 😉

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Posted : 25/09/2017 12:20 pm
(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Eric Peters
Posted by: colinblackrock

 

That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?

This is the first time i use the words FAKE NEWS this year 😉

I don't get it.

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Posted : 25/09/2017 3:26 pm
(@mj_gilbert)
Deputy

I would love to see a screen shot of that...

I AM the FBI.

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Posted : 25/09/2017 4:22 pm
(@richard-d)
Lodger

colinblackrock: "I agree that in the 430 world, which seems in many ways to be our world, to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house..."

Where? I have just watched that scene again and I don't see anything with the dimensions of a VHS tape. There is a box within the unit with the table lamp on it, but the writing on it is totally out of focus.

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Posted : 25/09/2017 7:09 pm
(@moonchild)
RR Diner Patron

As I said in my interpretation of the final before, Laura is also destroyed together with Richard/Coop and that world where Judy exists. Of Course Carrie is destroyed, of course LAURA now knows what happened to her! This is NEEDED, this reaction, this awakening is exactly what is NEEDED to destroy Judy. Her pain, her sorrow her past her life her memories are what kills Judy. Think of Laura as a "Bomb" who with her pain and suffering she went through is now strong enough to destroy Judy. 

That moment of realization is the moment Judy disappears. It is NOT a happy ending! That world dies. Everything in it has to disappear for the plan to work. 

I rewatched the scenes at the apartment and couldn't see the vhs of TP anywhere however I also believe there are 2 plans to the ending. the ending as I explained it and the ending as the characters actually realizing they are characters in a tv series. This theory was actually first developed in an Italian website/blog I read not long ago (before the ending). The characters now in the "real world" our world realize that they are just that :" characters". That awakening destroys them and it is a metaphor of our lives: being that they lived inside a dream...but what if we also live inside a dream? what if we are the characters in a sitcom bla bla bla.... (not too interested in this ending tho I find it pretty dark and boring).

 

 

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Posted : 25/09/2017 7:18 pm
(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Richard Danks

colinblackrock: "I agree that in the 430 world, which seems in many ways to be our world, to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house..."

Where? I have just watched that scene again and I don't see anything with the dimensions of a VHS tape. There is a box within the unit with the table lamp on it, but the writing on it is totally out of focus.

Yeah. It is possible that the blue VHS box MIGHT say TWIN PEAKS but as much as I tried to manipulate the screenshot, I can't prove it.

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Posted : 25/09/2017 7:34 pm
(@moonchild)
RR Diner Patron

but if you had a vhs of a show you were watching with Laura Palmer in it... wouldn t you answer Coop's question "are you laura palmer?" with "who? the chick in the series I am watching?"

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Posted : 25/09/2017 8:27 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: cyndeewillow
Posted by: Eric Peters
Posted by: colinblackrock

 

That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?

This is the first time i use the words FAKE NEWS this year 😉

I don't get it.

Heh heh, I get it. 😉

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Posted : 25/09/2017 9:08 pm
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