Can we talk about what Mr C wants  

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(@myn0k)
Deputy

I'd like us all to discuss what Mr C wants and what his true motivations were, because I'm having problems reconciling them with the events that took place. 

From all our questions maybe we can piece together a bit more about him and his motivations. 

Here's my questions/observations. 

1 - we were originally led to assume that he was looking for the experiment. But why? What was he hoping to achieve? She is the mega mother / evil Jowdy. How can this help him or BOB?

2 - Surely Bob's time spent in Twin Peaks (being an owl or whatever) would've uncovered the location of the portal that Mr C was looking for, many years ago. Surely it was obviously in Twin Peaks all along, found at some point by all entities that dwell in Twin Peaks?Why'd he need to traipse around the US, working with the New York glass box, doing all this hard work, just to head back to whence he came? Duhh? 

3 - Mr C didn't know who Judy was. This means he didn't share Cooper's memories after all as was previously hypothesised. Otherwise he would've had memories of the conversation Briggs had with Cooper regarding Judy.

4 - if he'd have killed Sheriff Truman and found Diane / Naido - so what? What's the big deal? What would he have accomplished? Not important, in my opinion. Just another fatality. 

5 - If Sarah Palmer was Judy (unconfirmed), then BOB would have/should have known this. 

All of this leads me to believe that what Mr C was actually looking for was the 430 location. The symbol was part of Jeffries's coordinates that he gave to Dale. 

So really, Mr C was looking for the alternative reality / the past / future, possibly because BOB wanted to find Laura and possess her. Or to undo the Fireman's work. 

Apologies if all this has already been discussed and I'm stating the obvious. But Mr C was my favourite thing about the mythos of this season, and I was hoping for more exposition as to his endgame. So now I have to piece if together myself!

As an after thought - I don't think Sarah is Judy. If so, BOB is an idiot and so is Mr C, making the whole thing rather pointless. 

 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:42 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator

I've been thinking about this a lot and have not come up with anything except that he "wanted" to kill Dale Cooper. And probably Diane too since the 2 of them had some plan to do something at some time somewhere.

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:46 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: Brandy Fisher

I've been thinking about this a lot and have not come up with anything except that he "wanted" to kill Dale Cooper. And probably Diane too since the 2 of them had some plan to do something at some time somewhere.

I don't understand why he couldn't have killed the real Diane rather than banishing her to the lodge. Unless you can't have a Tulpa while the real one is still alive. 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:49 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: Myn0k
Posted by: Brandy Fisher

I've been thinking about this a lot and have not come up with anything except that he "wanted" to kill Dale Cooper. And probably Diane too since the 2 of them had some plan to do something at some time somewhere.

I don't understand why he couldn't have killed the real Diane rather than banishing her to the lodge. Unless you can't have a Tulpa while the reel one is still alive. 

Actually, that makes senses.  Hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah. If the original dies, do all the tulpas?

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:51 pm
(@chris_gorgon)
RR Diner Patron

If Laura is able to effectively combat and defeat Judy, then possession of Laura could theoretically give BOB and Mr. C power over Judy.  

EDIT: BOB would probably be interested in power that would raise his position above Mike's. 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:51 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: Chris Gorgon

If Laura is able to effectively combat and defeat Judy, then possession of Laura could theoretically give BOB and Mr. C power over Judy.  

This is a good point. 

So maybe Mr C wanted to enter the 430 universe (dimension/time/whatever) in order to deliver Laura to BOB so that he'd be able to overpower Judy. 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:55 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator

I really think he wanted to survive and prevail over Cooper.  How many times did he try to have Dougie/Cooper made dead? I suppose that could be because Mr. C wanted to enter the other dimension instead of Cooper.  It's possible.

I guess I just got something much more primal and survivalist out of it.

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Posted : 05/09/2017 4:59 pm
Myn0k liked
(@jocelyn)
Roadhouse Regular

I like that idea of the 430 location and hunting down Laura . Bob never got over that failure and wanted her more than he wanted anyone else. We still don't know exactly why.

But Mr C made it clear that what he wanted was symbolized on the ace card. Sometimes I think he was making the same mistake Windom Earle made, in thinking that if he just gained access to a lodge element, he would be able to harness its powers.

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:00 pm
(@ranmacmh)
Roadhouse Regular

I kind of thought, because Mr. C was Cooper's spiritual opposite, but also harboring BOB who has all those yucky appetites, that he sort of made a point of indulging any lusts that would have been the counterpoint to Coopers love.  That played out with Diane and Audrey, I think. 

And it seems like he took his sadism one step farther and banished them instead of simply killing them.

Another idea is that Diane is actually KEY to retrieving Laura correctly.  That may be part of the failure once they've changed.  Otherwise why did they both need to cross over?  It seems like they were both important to the mission but we lost Diane.  

Although I don't think Mr. C knew that, since he didn't know about Judy.  So maybe that doesn't work.  Or that could have been Bob affecting his actions on a more subconcious level.  But in that case why not kill her?  Classic bad guy mistake, wanting the hero to suffer rather than just getting the job done?  Maybe he fed off her suffering while she was trapped forever in that floating electrical doohickey. 

Auugh my braiiin

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:01 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy

One other point I'd like to add.

Jeffries tells Mr C "you've already met Judy". 

Does he tell him this thinking he's talking to the real Dale Cooper (in which case he could be referring to Sarah Palmer), or does he tell him knowing he's talking to a doppelganger (in which case is he referring to the fact that Mr C has met the Jowdy). 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:02 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: Myn0k

I'd like us all to discuss what Mr C wants and what his true motivations were, because I'm having problems reconciling them with the events that took place. 

From all our questions maybe we can piece together a bit more about him and his motivations. 

Here's my questions/observations. 

1 - we were originally led to assume that he was looking for the experiment. But why? What was he hoping to achieve? She is the mega mother / evil Jowdy. How can this help him or BOB?

2 - Surely Bob's time spent in Twin Peaks (being an owl or whatever) would've uncovered the location of the portal that Mr C was looking for, many years ago. Surely it was obviously in Twin Peaks all along, found at some point by all entities that dwell in Twin Peaks?Why'd he need to traipse around the US, working with the New York glass box, doing all this hard work, just to head back to whence he came? Duhh? 

3 - Mr C didn't know who Judy was. This means he didn't share Cooper's memories after all as was previously hypothesised. Otherwise he would've had memories of the conversation Briggs had with Cooper regarding Judy.

4 - if he'd have killed Sheriff Truman and found Diane / Naido - so what? What's the big deal? What would he have accomplished? Not important, in my opinion. Just another fatality. 

5 - If Sarah Palmer was Judy (unconfirmed), then BOB would have/should have known this. 

All of this leads me to believe that what Mr C was actually looking for was the 430 location. The symbol was part of Jeffries's coordinates that he gave to Dale. 

So really, Mr C was looking for the alternative reality / the past / future, possibly because BOB wanted to find Laura and possess her. Or to undo the Fireman's work. 

Apologies if all this has already been discussed and I'm stating the obvious. But Mr C was my favourite thing about the mythos of this season, and I was hoping for more exposition as to his endgame. So now I have to piece if together myself!

As an after thought - I don't think Sarah is Judy. If so, BOB is an idiot and so is Mr C, making the whole thing rather pointless. 

 

2.) We don't really know how Bob interacts with the host. Leland didn't remember all that Bob had done while inhabiting him until his death scene. 

3.) Coop may have been interacting with Briggs while trapped in the Red Room (and spoke to Gordon in a dream).

4.) it seemed to me that he had been tricked by all those that gave him coordinates. They led to the White Lodge and the Fireman put Mr C where he needed to be so that he'd be killed and returned to the Red Room for annihilation. Bob appears to have been destroyed as well or at least "wounded" and separated from his powerful host.

5.) Mr C and Bob may not have had the same plan and Sarah may have only recently become inhabited by Judy. 

I agree that Bob probably wants(ed) to find Laura. 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:03 pm
(@xellosmaster)
RR Diner Patron

Naido changed to Diane and we saw love with good Dale. So we have opposite pure evil Dale is comming to kill her. Why they are going to rabbit place ? Only for her. Andy say she is very important and they protect her. And she is scared when Mr C is comming.

Don't ask me for sense, because for me "we live inside a dream".  Many things have no sense, like Candy, green glove or endless bleeding man in jail, how can be that noone called a doctor for him ?

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:06 pm
Myn0k liked
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: Caoimhín Shirey
Posted by: Myn0k

I'd like us all to discuss what Mr C wants and what his true motivations were, because I'm having problems reconciling them with the events that took place. 

From all our questions maybe we can piece together a bit more about him and his motivations. 

Here's my questions/observations. 

1 - we were originally led to assume that he was looking for the experiment. But why? What was he hoping to achieve? She is the mega mother / evil Jowdy. How can this help him or BOB?

2 - Surely Bob's time spent in Twin Peaks (being an owl or whatever) would've uncovered the location of the portal that Mr C was looking for, many years ago. Surely it was obviously in Twin Peaks all along, found at some point by all entities that dwell in Twin Peaks?Why'd he need to traipse around the US, working with the New York glass box, doing all this hard work, just to head back to whence he came? Duhh? 

3 - Mr C didn't know who Judy was. This means he didn't share Cooper's memories after all as was previously hypothesised. Otherwise he would've had memories of the conversation Briggs had with Cooper regarding Judy.

4 - if he'd have killed Sheriff Truman and found Diane / Naido - so what? What's the big deal? What would he have accomplished? Not important, in my opinion. Just another fatality. 

5 - If Sarah Palmer was Judy (unconfirmed), then BOB would have/should have known this. 

All of this leads me to believe that what Mr C was actually looking for was the 430 location. The symbol was part of Jeffries's coordinates that he gave to Dale. 

So really, Mr C was looking for the alternative reality / the past / future, possibly because BOB wanted to find Laura and possess her. Or to undo the Fireman's work. 

Apologies if all this has already been discussed and I'm stating the obvious. But Mr C was my favourite thing about the mythos of this season, and I was hoping for more exposition as to his endgame. So now I have to piece if together myself!

As an after thought - I don't think Sarah is Judy. If so, BOB is an idiot and so is Mr C, making the whole thing rather pointless. 

 

2.) We don't really know how Bob interacts with the host. Leland didn't remember all that Bob had done while inhabiting him until his death scene. 

3.) Coop may have been interacting with Briggs while trapped in the Red Room (and spoke to Gordon in a dream).

4.) it seemed to me that he had been tricked by all those they gave him coordinates. They lead to the White Lodge and the Fireman put Mr C where he needed to be so that he'd be killed and returned to the Red Room for annihilation. Bob appears to have been destroyed as well or at least "wounded" and separated from his powerful host.

5.) Mr C and Bob may not have had the same plan and Sarah may have only recently become inhabited by Judy. 

I agree that Bob probably wants(ed) to find Laura. 

These are all really good points, particularly the part about Sarah maybe only recently being inhabited. 

This made me suddenly think of the Turkey Jerky scene - surely there are answers/clues in that scene. 

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:11 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: Myn0k

One other point I'd like to add.

Jeffries tells Mr C "you've already met Judy". 

Does he tell him this thinking he's talking to the real Dale Cooper (in which case he could be referring to Sarah Palmer), or does he tell him knowing he's talking to a doppelganger (in which case is he referring to the fact that Mr C has met the Jowdy). 

I think Jeffries was sceptical of Mr C. He asked Coop to be specific, and then knew that Coop was Coop.

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Posted : 05/09/2017 5:12 pm
Myn0k liked
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator

This is all he really wants.

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Posted : 05/09/2017 7:29 pm
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