Black Lodge / White Lodge / Waiting Room  

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(@cooperthumbs)
Lodger

This one has been in the back of my mind for a while.  We hear a lot about the lodges during all the canon of Twin Peaks but the only place we see is what is referred to as "The Waiting Room" or Red Room as some people call as, the iconic scenes in there.  If this isn't the Black or White Lodge itself then have we actually seen those places in The Return?

It has been in the back of my mind that the first scenes with Cooper and The Fireman filmed in black and white, might well be places in the building in the ocean which follows in later episodes including The Fireman, which may well be the Black Lodge? Or The White! Implications for which "side" The Fireman actually belongs to?

Oh and interestingly, we see people leave "The Waiting Room" in a few ways - Cooper through the floor and falls through water to the weird place, Laura,  who gets pulled up in to the air...possibly the "curtain exit" too to the physical location in Glastonbury Grove?

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Posted : 29/09/2017 9:35 am
(@charlie)
Roadhouse Regular

I am about ready to settle on the Fireman's place as the white lodge.  The only characters we see there are Fireman, his lady friend, and Briggs.  We see Andy summoned there and Evil Coop imprisoned there both briefly, but we see no signs of the 'lower' creatures having any power or appearance there.  I think this is also suggested by the white pool and trees entrance found near jack rabbits palace.

I might also assume that Naido is there based on the purple ocean, but not as certain about that.

The black pool and trees at Glastonbury suggest to me a tie to the Black Lodge.  I wonder if the black lodge includes the waiting room or if it immediately precedes access.

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Posted : 29/09/2017 10:31 am
buttercup, Roberto Bella, Jocelyn Rowe and 2 people liked
(@cooperthumbs)
Lodger
Posted by: Charlie

I am about ready to settle on the Fireman's place as the white lodge.  The only characters we see there are Fireman, his lady friend, and Briggs.  We see Andy summoned there and Evil Coop imprisoned there both briefly, but we see no signs of the 'lower' creatures having any power or appearance there.  I think this is also suggested by the white pool and trees entrance found near jack rabbits palace.

I might also assume that Naido is there based on the purple ocean, but not as certain about that.

The black pool and trees at Glastonbury suggest to me a tie to the Black Lodge.  I wonder if the black lodge includes the waiting room or if it immediately precedes access.

Good points. I suppose in the final scenes where the red curtains raise and it is just blackness behind (with the white horse etc!) could be preceding access to it, the blackness representing the Black Lodge,  so I guess it is a waiting room purely for the Black Lodge with that interpretation. I had kinda thought it might be a waiting room for either lodge but maybe not!

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Posted : 29/09/2017 10:36 am
(@dopplearb)
RR Diner Patron

I think it's a waiting room for both lodges, otherwise we wouldn't see Cooper and Laura in there. The Tulpas are brought here to dissolve, they don't belong in either lodge.

I think it's interesting that MIKE appears to dwell solely in the Red Room as his ties have always been a bit ambiguous. Is he truly a white lodge character now or is he simply a lodge spirit who cannot belong fully in either side?

I also think it's interesting that he's able to leave the lodge in 17 to accompany Cooper to Jefferies lair at which point he does not use backwards speak.

Any more thoughts on MIKE?

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Posted : 29/09/2017 10:58 am
(@andrew_glasson)
RR Diner Patron

The way I have interpreted it is that the Red Room is a waiting room where you can gain access to either the white lodge or the black lodge.  The White Lodge is the place in the purple sea and the black lodge is the convenience store above the gas station.  This is why Dale Cooper went to either place whilst in the red room at the beginning of the series.  I think any of the lodge spirits like the Arm, Mike/Phillip Gerard, The Fireman can manifest themselves in the red room but then again it always seems that the black lodge spirits occupy the Red Room more than the White Lodge and where things are sorted out such as getting rid of tulpas and doppelgangers.

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Posted : 29/09/2017 11:10 am
(@dopplearb)
RR Diner Patron

I am skeptical that above the convenience store is the same thing as the black lodge. If it were then why does Mr. C freely go inside when the whole point of this season is him avoiding going back into the lodges to change places with good Cooper?

 

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Posted : 29/09/2017 2:42 pm
(@xellosmaster)
RR Diner Patron

If you mean old series 25 years ago. Waiting room is this place with two chairs. Rest is Black Lodge.

But ofcourse since many people ignore old series, so it can be anything right now...

BUT  I don't think Lynch changed idea. Because in begging Mr C say to Darya, that they want him back to a place called Black Lodge.

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Posted : 29/09/2017 3:00 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: Renata Stachowiak

If you mean old series 25 years ago. Waiting room is this place with two chairs. Rest is Black Lodge.

But ofcourse since many people ignore old series, so it can be anything right now...

BUT  I don't think Lynch changed idea. Because in begging Mr C say to Darya, that they want him back to a place called Black Lodge.

Wow, aren't you just the expert these days..........

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Posted : 29/09/2017 3:13 pm
(@chris_flackett)
Roadhouse Regular

This article offers an interesting take:

Black Lodge, White Lodge – Time for a Rethink?

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Posted : 29/09/2017 4:22 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: Chris Flackett

This article offers an interesting take:

https://25yearslatersite.com/2017/09/26/black-lodge-white-lodge-time-for-a-rethink/

Good read!  I especially like the part about how can anyone really "know" anything to any certainty.  That speaks volumes to me.

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Posted : 29/09/2017 4:52 pm
(@richard-d)
Lodger

It always bugged me when I heard or read Black/White lodge, but I guess some people have just made their minds up about these places. It is not entirely clear-cut in my mind.

However, as Charlie wrote, "...the white pool and trees entrance found near jack rabbits palace..." does have a certain logic to it and although the pool is not what I would call white, it is at least light coloured in appearance.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 4:48 pm
(@julie_loader)
Deputy

Interesting that the Fireman's house is always shown in black and white......

The only colour has been the golden sparkles out of his head that birthed the golden Laura orb.

Diane tulpa had  3 colours of nail polish. Real Diane only 2.....

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Posted : 02/10/2017 4:55 pm
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Chris Flackett

This article offers an interesting take:

Black Lodge, White Lodge – Time for a Rethink?

I just listened to Entertainment Weekly's brief podcast with Kyle MacLachlan and he clearly said, "Cooper has been in the Black Lodge for 25 years." So that was his understanding of it. Yeah, my heart would not be broken or saddened in the least if "Red Room" was just something fans came up with to explain what they saw.

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Posted : 02/10/2017 4:56 pm
(@gvztt)
Lodger

well when i come to think of it... Black Lodge dwellers literally helped Cooper and FBI, and indirectly, the Fireman who is a White Lodge dweller.

So maybe they are not pure evil, they just have a different life style, minding their own businesses.

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Posted : 03/10/2017 10:55 am
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: gvztt

well when i come to think of it... Black Lodge dwellers literally helped Cooper and FBI, and indirectly, the Fireman who is a White Lodge dweller.

So maybe they are not pure evil, they just have a different life style, minding their own businesses.

I like that. They all have their own agendas and ways of going about fulfilling those. Things are not so black and white, so to speak. 🙂

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Posted : 03/10/2017 10:58 am
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