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Who is the dreamer?  

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(@samxtherapy)
Detective

What if the Froggy Bug girl is the dreamer?

Now that'd be something, wouldn't it?

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Posted : 27/08/2017 3:49 pm
(@devaneyfan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: SamXTherapy

What if the Froggy Bug girl is the dreamer?

Now that'd be something, wouldn't it?

There have been frog dreamers before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSFLZ-MzIhM

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Posted : 27/08/2017 3:57 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: JeffreyGWillett
Posted by: SamXTherapy

What if the Froggy Bug girl is the dreamer?

Now that'd be something, wouldn't it?

There have been frog dreamers before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSFLZ-MzIhM

You beat me to it except I was going to post this: 

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Posted : 27/08/2017 3:59 pm
(@kyle-anderson)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: SamXTherapy

What if the Froggy Bug girl is the dreamer?

Is there a common Lynchian meaning of deformity/monsters?

I've recently watched Eraserhead but I couldn't be able to state whether the alien child or the Lady in the Radiator were in fact completely positive figures. The creature that appeared in Part 8 probably would be considered evil for the most, but not necessary for Lynch.

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Posted : 27/08/2017 3:59 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

Nice one.  Except, I really was being serious.

Imagine if everything that happened since then has been due to her influence.  If, somehow, as in a Philip K Dick novel, she is altering reality.

In "Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said", the protagonist wakes up in a world where he shouldn't exist.  The titular policeman has an incestuous relationship with his sister, a drug addict who takes something which, instead of altering her reality, or perception thereof, allows her to alter the whole of reality itself.

Maybe the unfortunate young lady is host to a living version of a similar sort of thing.

Imagine if, all the stuff Mother barfed out were just ideas, possibilities, concepts and so on that came to rest inside the Frog Roach (It may be many things but it ain't no moth), which when hatched, carried them to a suitable host where they could spread out and infect the rest of the world.  These things gradually alter the world, break down the barriers between here and there, and allow things like the Woodsmen to operate more freely, and creatures like Bob and his pals come into being.

Edited to add, this post is for Jeffrey and Myn0k, before the post by Kyle A.

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Posted : 27/08/2017 4:09 pm
(@devaneyfan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Kyle Anderson
Posted by: SamXTherapy

What if the Froggy Bug girl is the dreamer?

Is there a common Lynchian meaning of deformity/monsters?

This is a great question! 

Lynch has challenged us with his depiction of physical difference/disability in most of his work.  I think the meaning of physical differences in his work comes from the viewers preconceptions and degree of openness.  I don't think "deformity" is Lynch code for monster or evil unless it is for the viewer.  

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Posted : 27/08/2017 4:21 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

Interesting point but consider...

A creature hatches from an egg in the desert, while all over the area, woodsmen are wreaking havoc, causing people to fall unconscious and killing people in the radio station.  The creature then crawls into the open mouth of an unconscious girl.

Doesn't sound like it has good intentions to me.  I mean, if it did have good intentions, why didn't it tap on the window and have a chat with the girl, or if it was shy, why not send a letter, or something?  Call me old fashioned if you will, but knocking someone out and then crawling down their throat seems a tad unfriendly to me, and not at all indicative of a friendly attitude.

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Posted : 27/08/2017 4:42 pm
(@devaneyfan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: SamXTherapy

Nice one.  Except, I really was being serious.

Imagine if everything that happened since then has been due to her influence.  If, somehow, as in a Philip K Dick novel, she is altering reality.

In "Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said", the protagonist wakes up in a world where he shouldn't exist.  The titular policeman has an incestuous relationship with his sister, a drug addict who takes something which, instead of altering her reality, or perception thereof, allows her to alter the whole of reality itself.

Maybe the unfortunate young lady is host to a living version of a similar sort of thing.

Imagine if, all the stuff Mother barfed out were just ideas, possibilities, concepts and so on that came to rest inside the Frog Roach (It may be many things but it ain't no moth), which when hatched, carried them to a suitable host where they could spread out and infect the rest of the world.  These things gradually alter the world, break down the barriers between here and there, and allow things like the Woodsmen to operate more freely, and creatures like Bob and his pals come into being.

Edited to add, this post is for Jeffrey and Myn0k, before the post by Kyle A.

This would be a great explanation and role for the frog roaches.  In the absence of any explanation from Lynch/Frost, yours will probably be the one that brings the highest degree of terror and the one I'll go with.   Much more thoughtful than the bugs possessing or transforming their hosts. 

Thanks for the book reference too.  I haven't read any Phillip K Dick, but will be doing so.

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Posted : 27/08/2017 4:52 pm
KLynched, buttercup, SamXTherapy and 1 people liked
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: SamXTherapy

Nice one.  Except, I really was being serious.

Imagine if everything that happened since then has been due to her influence.  If, somehow, as in a Philip K Dick novel, she is altering reality.

In "Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said", the protagonist wakes up in a world where he shouldn't exist.  The titular policeman has an incestuous relationship with his sister, a drug addict who takes something which, instead of altering her reality, or perception thereof, allows her to alter the whole of reality itself.

Maybe the unfortunate young lady is host to a living version of a similar sort of thing.

Imagine if, all the stuff Mother barfed out were just ideas, possibilities, concepts and so on that came to rest inside the Frog Roach (It may be many things but it ain't no moth), which when hatched, carried them to a suitable host where they could spread out and infect the rest of the world.  These things gradually alter the world, break down the barriers between here and there, and allow things like the Woodsmen to operate more freely, and creatures like Bob and his pals come into being.

Edited to add, this post is for Jeffrey and Myn0k, before the post by Kyle A.

It's dark - I like it. 

The only question I would add is where Naido would fit into all this (if we assume she has a purpose). 

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Posted : 27/08/2017 4:59 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

Naido could be a remote station, operated on behalf of the Fireman.  An observer and facilitator, if necessary, should the Fireman have need to send someone down to Earth.  I mean, we have to accept the Fireman is pretty clued up on stuff, so maybe he just did a bit of forward planning and put a few of these places around.  Like a listening post/early warning station and a sort of Travel Lodge for those weary interdimensional commuters.

@ Jeffrey - If you like your SF dark and paranoid, Philip K Dick is yer man.  You'll know of him through Blade Runner, no doubt.  His books are much darker and more complex than the movie, good though it is.  The novel was Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep?, and he also wrote the story We Can Remember It For You Wholesale, which was the basis of Total Recall.  A Scanner, Darkly is pure out and out paranoia of a particularly Lynchian style, where nobody, but nobody, knows who to trust, and is arguably a sideswipe at the dying embers of hippie culture as it was at the time.

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Posted : 27/08/2017 6:28 pm
Myn0k, KLynched, buttercup and 1 people liked
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: caelasmah

We are all the dreamer

I'm feeling like this is most likely. We may never learn to what extent Janey-E and Sonny Jim--or others--are "manufactured," but to the viewers, ALL the characters are manufactured by a writer. It makes perfect sense for Lynch to discuss "dreaming up" these "manufactured" characters by his art exhibit. We're all witnessing the dream, and it probably won't "make [total] sense" at the end. Dreams generally don't either. 

Nevertheless, I'm excited to see the end of the story!!

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Posted : 27/08/2017 8:56 pm
(@recon7997)
Town Visitor

The entire Twin Peaks existence and all happenings could be a dream.   I mean look at what he did with Blue Velvet and who was the star of that movie....Kyle MacLachlan.  Maybe with that phrase Lynch is trying to tell the viewer that "we" are the dreamers watching "them" inside of a dream.   I think, anyways....whew...my head is scrambled.  LOL

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Posted : 29/08/2017 9:00 am
(@kyle-anderson)
RR Diner Patron

I would be very disappointed if all we've seen is just a dream.

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Posted : 29/08/2017 9:08 am
(@eric_g)
Lodger

All of Twin Peaks is a dream, and I long reckoned that Lynch was the principal dreamer and Agent Cooper was Lynch's dream-self or dream projection, navigating his own unconscious by means of intuition, reason, and luck.  However, Lynch brought into the dream things within himself that contaminated the heavenly small town of his dreams: his Philadelphia past, his human nature, his fatherly fears  . . . .

By the way, in Season 1, when Ben Horne is about to have sex with his own daughter, he says "This is such stuff as dreams are made of," just as he walks into the dreamy sex room. It's a joke (black humor to say the least), one of the best jokes of the whole series, and one of the most telling, too --given that two personae are about to embark on the most classic of all the plays of the unconscious: the oedipus complex (slightly revised).

But I agree there are multiple dreamers. Many inhabitants of Twin Peaks are fabrications of Lynch's unconscious --like the characters that appear in our own dreams. They might have a certain level autonomy in that they come from different parts of the mind or represent different parts of the personality, but they are not truly independent of Cooper --they can all be traced back, by dream umbilical cords, to the same dreamer. And one wonders whether they are conscious in the way Cooper is. Cooper may actually represent (or *be*) the dreamer's consciousness (the investigative, intellecting functions) and all the other characters may be a kind of "background".

But then (and it's more clear in IE or MD than in TP) sometimes the principal dreamer (or fictive protagonist) runs into someone with an independent existence --someone attached by a dream umbilical cord to a different body in a different bed. Places like the Roadhouse are meeting places in exactly that sense. And then there is a 3rd kind of character who is a non-human force (lady with the blue hair in MD, the Fireman in TP).

The fact that "base reality" of Twin Peaks is a dream takes nothing away from the work, imo. On the contrary.

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Posted : 31/08/2017 5:58 pm
(@badben69)
Dweller

My take is that we are all the dreamer because there was multiple scenes where the fictitious characters would be doing what we would be doing at the same time "watching the screen"...Mitchum brothers watching security screens, Richard watching the security screens at a different location, Fireman watching the "replay of the first part of ep. 8," Andy watching scenes play by, Sarah Palmer watching tv and drinking, and Cooper/Dougie watching tv while eating cake.

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Posted : 29/01/2018 9:14 am
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