Who Called Mr. C Looking To Take Bob?  

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(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Yambag021

More definition in general?

 

I don't think you understand sd vs hd....

I understand the irony of the situation, but nevertheless there it was, easier to see, more defined, better color, everything lit up properly, much better visual experience; and my HD television did not come close to doing that entire 'convenience store' scene justice.  I think the way that scene was made messes with the settings of HD televisions, but maybe someone could find out the correct settings if you tried to fix it for a while, not sure if this would be successful (all I tried was the brightness, and this was nowhere close to what I had on the tube television)..

Also, I still hold to it that SD tube televisions are still better for watching certain things, especially many older shows or movies....

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Posted : 25/08/2017 12:57 am
Myn0k liked
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Yambag021

No offense, but I think you're insane.

Manipulating the settings to see things in the background if anything depreciates the film bc you are seeing things that were filmed to be hidden.

 

And to say things like "on sd the colors aren't as blunted" is litery wrong. Like it goes against the concept of sd vs hd.

its a mystery show with hidden clues, its all about finding whats hidden, solving the mystery...reading between the lines, etc.....saying that you shouldnt find hidden things in a mystery show goes against the concept of a mystery show: clues are left to provoke you to think and find what is hidden, what they are not flat out giving to you up front(one quick definition of thinking could even be 'finding what is hidden', reflecting from something, representing it to yourself and finding something missing in it, figure out something about it that was not there at first glance, and a lot of times things are not 'meant' to be found, but meant by whom? who would say such a thing, etc.?)etc.....there are different instruments to accomplish this finding what is hidden, figuring out the clues, for instance thinking; or some people are also freezing images, extracting hidden sounds, etc to isolate the clues themselves even though the images are not given to us frozen...

try it out,  colors and lighting much better on an old tube tv, colors clearer and more defined visually, maybe just from the settings.  I am fully aware of the advanced capabilities of an HD television, two different instruments/mediums for tv and movies, two different eras of entertainment that bring certain advantages and disadvantages, and I think the creators are playing with this in production....I think someone mentioned that they explicitly recognized this on the criterion release of eraserhead

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Posted : 25/08/2017 1:04 am
(@esther)
Lodger

So who eliminated the guard in NY?

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Posted : 25/08/2017 4:47 am
(@esther)
Lodger
Posted by: Murat Erol Özkan
Posted by: Estera

He (she) says "I missed you in NY". So maybe the answear is simple - this is someone who was in New York in the glass box. Who was it? Same person who killed Sam and Tracy.

But who really 'missed' in NY, it was Agent Cooper who arrived at the wrong time, since Sam was letting in Tracy and checking for the guard, thus opening them both up to be killed by the mother/experiment. Mr. C enters to plot with the billionaire, hiring people as bait to lure out the mother/experiment(with sexuality, since it evokes trauma/transcendental(love, pain, 'falling', etc.), Laura's tragedy, etc.) in their attempt to control it there and record it with all those machines, since Mr. C wants to posses this power of red room/lodges/vortex/void/atomic (de)core, etc. as some kind of solid entity, like tyrannical billionaires controlling all digital network, brains, etc, making thought and dreams all part of their programmatic plan for the world, taking the freedom out of it(which is of course underway in real life).  If Sam was still up there, Agent Cooper probably could have entered him instead of Dougie  and confronted Mr. C right there.  Maybe it is Agent Cooper proper that is haunting Mr. C, what Mr. C is trying to avoid, his fatal weakness that will eliminate him.  The voice that Mr. C gets from that machine in Darya's hotel room could be Agent Cooper himself, threatening Mr. C with his impending destruction, the return of the dreaming and struggling Cooper in the world.  This would destroy Mr. C, since Mr. C is tyrannical regarding the world, he does not admit he needs to follow the dreams that were shattered in Cooper when he found out about Twin Peaks corruption and started laughing about his dreams of 'Annie', return of dreams and struggle.

So Ella first mentioned the voices and when they are credited, this is very important since the voice is credited as the same actor, but appears in multiple places and in different people.  We saw the 'voice' appear in Sarah Palmer when she killed the 'Truck You' truck driver at the elks lodge.  Sarah was just drinking and avoiding the 'new' orange jerky that is all over the world now and was the illuminating color of the elks lodge, the same jerky/gum that destroyed her family and what she warned those young kids about in the grocery. This jerky/enjoyment is imposed by Mr. C/billionaires in their attempt to 'exist as dreamer', turn the world into their personal 'convenience store' to be drained of money/enjoyment, destroy their dreams, only allowed certain types of 'convenient' factual enjoyment that respect their solid factual reign of tyranny over the world, thus kill Sam and Tracey right away with their own mother/experiment/voice that they impose on the world.  Now Sarah is opposed to all of this in the world, that's why she has been drinking at home, so when she returns to engagement with the world, the opposition voice/dream that has been inside her, but what she has been trying to hide from.  This voice comes out as if it was an alien force, an answer from somewhere else, the tyranny world getting what it deserves, what it fears etc. from inside Sarah, dreams of Sarah interacting with the world, knowing what the world controlled by billionaires is lacking since it imposed that brutal injustice on the Palmers.  Voice of Jeffries is coming from inside the 'black lodge's 'convenience world', thus it is threatening to Mr. C, since it shows the void/vortex that cuts open the world he is desperately trying to possess, all the way down to the mother/experiement, and he will die because 'one cannot possess nothing/freedom as property', just impose chaos and tyranny trying to do it, turn the world into 'convenience store'.  Mr. C wants to be the dreamer that exists, but Jeffries voice is tearing him up, showing that his quest just lands him in 'convenience motel' and no one cares about Judy anymore here, thus Mr. C starts getting nervous and demanding to find Judy, at which point he exists the world he creates(motel, rancho rosa) and goes back on his tyrannical quest.  Finally, the voice Mr. C heard in Darya's motel room was threatening to him, it is from the world, that Agent Cooper proper is coming back who is no longer the 'dreamer that exists'(ignores the search for justice, dreaming about something better, settle in some perfect place of Twin Peaks).  Mr. C is now threatened, he can never possess the mother/experiment, he is just turning the world into chaos for his selfish profit/enjoyment quest at the expense of the world; soon Mr. C will be forced to realize this and die when Agent Cooper proper completes the return.  Dougie cannot be the hero, he is just the other side of Mr. C that complements him and helps him rule, just like MIKE/Gerard with his ring is to BOB.

Dougie is manufactured by Gerard/Mike to avoid Mr. C, allow his reign, give it a nice presentation, that it still tries to do 'good', etc., as per the agreement above the convenience store between MIKE's arm and Bob.  Gerard accepts Mr. C as leader, following the agreement above the convenience store(Black lodge), then BOB dumps the guilt on Gerard in the intermediary red room, from where Gerard communicates with Dougie/Cooper to enact his cover up for Mr. C reign in the real world, creating the passive world of suburbanite zombies that have no dreams, outside of wishing to be like the tyrannical rulers passively admiring them and 'taking it'(but cannot, since they arent the rulers and their lives/world turned into 'convenience motel' or rancho rosa) and thus offer no challenge to Mr. C.  Gerard holds up the golden core/atom, saying 'youve been tricked', but hes been tricked into giving up on the 'one', the core, because he suffered atomic splitting, thinks there is no core, no way to realize dreams, etc., instead of seeing the core/one/centering/dreams as something that does not factually exists, but is something like a 'de centered' core of non-existing dreams, solid and unbreakable, all the more powerful because not factual, struggling and interacting with the world.  Gerard handles the ring because he accepts the world as dead, without dreams, etc., like the Mr. C and billionaires, who use only their dreams and reduce the world to their 'convenience store'.

Finally, Albert is credited in this episode(I dont suspect him to be the voice): Albert and Cole are something like less extreme version of Mr. C and Dougie.  Albert and Cole complement one another(thus Cole always takes him, as sure as a 'bird flying'), Cole is the dreamer who engages too much in existence, going to extremes engaging in facutal existence that is not worth the dreams, and where struggle proper and skepticism is required(like Dougie, who sees 'jackpots' everywhere and ends up losing his dreams and just controlled by the flow of nature).  Albert was confronting Cole with skepticism in his hotel room, and Cole was paying the price for the night before when that window cleaner appeared.  Albert goes too far as well,  with his healthy skepticism going too far when he humiliated the people of Twin Peaks and when he scoffs at Cole's Monica Belluschi dream, as well as Hastings' dreams of 'drinking mixed drinks on the beach'.  Albert found dreams and skepticism working together, everything hitting right, worth the gamble, etc., when he met the 'dark comedy' morgue lady.....But Mr. C is like an Albert gone to a wild extreme, everything is just factual existence to be reduced to a convenience store, kill all the dreams, etc., skepticism gone into murderous 'Chad' levels of cynicism that do not believe in the log and log lady's ability to open mysteries, realize dreams, turn logs into gold fire, burning injustice and cause, etc......since all dreams, justice and rationality(as social 'cause' of action') dictate that the billionaires/Mr. C end up like 'Truck You' or in jail like Chad, where they should be 'enjoying the beautiful day'....since what they are doing to Sam and Tracy in New York, spreading this on the digital network they control, etc....

So you think that the person who called was Agent Cooper himself? So why he says "I'll be with Bob again"? Just  threaten?

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Posted : 25/08/2017 4:55 am
(@steve_moss)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Estera

So who eliminated the guard in NY?

No one. He took a piss break. 

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Posted : 25/08/2017 5:01 am
(@esther)
Lodger

But they were in the toilet and he wasn't there. Maybe he found toilet too dirty and he   went outside.  😉

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Posted : 25/08/2017 5:04 am
(@steve_moss)
Roadhouse Regular

There is no billionaire. Mr C & Jeffries funded the New York operation. 

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Posted : 25/08/2017 5:05 am
Estera liked
(@steve_moss)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Estera

But they were in the toilet and he wasn't there. Maybe he found toilet too dirty and he   went outside.  😉

Lol

Or he also needed a fag break and decided to smoke & pee outside at the same time.

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Posted : 25/08/2017 6:57 am
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Estera

So who eliminated the guard in NY?

I think that was a set up by the billionaire(probably the old guy pictured with Mr. C) in order to 'allow' Tracey in so that the mother/experiment could be lured out by the predictable sexual encounter.  It was a bait......, part of that job to lure out the mother/experiment, record and try to trap it...they were staging the situation to make that happen....they bring in students to eliminate, who may think that its 'just a job' or that there is some kind of law/authority functioning, that they have some rights, etc.; well its billionaire/Mr. C law, as in no law, theyve turned the state into their property, and the world outside of their little 'bubble' into 'convenience store'....

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Posted : 25/08/2017 1:38 pm
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Estera
Posted by: Murat Erol Özkan
Posted by: Estera

He (she) says "I missed you in NY". So maybe the answear is simple - this is someone who was in New York in the glass box. Who was it? Same person who killed Sam and Tracy.

 

So you think that the person who called was Agent Cooper himself? So why he says "I'll be with Bob again"? Just  threaten?

Could be that he is just threatening, or that the threat of ultimate destruction resonates with Mr. C in this way, since he needs Bob to carry on in his wild quest.  Sarah Palmer had something like the 'mother/experiment' inside her because of what was done to her family, that Cooper has something like that in him now after being tortured in that hell for 25 years while Mr. C/Dougie have been taking his life from him; some kind of destruction that has to be unleashed on Mr. C, like Sarah Palmer unleashed on the truck driver, hence the arrival of a voice alien to Agent Cooper within Agent Cooper himself, the need to take force out of Mr. C's hands, force in order to uphold authority that will maintain freedom and law. Under Mr. C/billionaire's reign of crime and terror outside of law, it is a crime against them to enforce the law, something bad/criminal that they would crush by force, thus Agent Cooper would have to take Bob(Mr. C's source of power) away from Mr. C.  Thus Agent Cooper would have to 'commit crime'(oppose lawlessness and the stupidity of the 'convenience motel') in order to restore some kind of freedom or rightfulness, unlike Dougie who just is 'good' and ends up going along with any crime, since the rule of Mr. C slowly debases the entire world into a 'convenience store'.  So 'the voice' sounds alien to Agent Cooper, like its not him, but comes from within him nonetheless; and this is the same as the voice played by a different actor that comes from within Sarah Palmer, the alien behind her face, etc....

But yes, the idea that the person wants to have 'Bob power' was my original idea and it may take something away from the idea that it was Agent Cooper calling, and indicate that it might have been another 'criminal with black fire/electricity'. But who was 'with Bob' before, if he says, I will be with Bob again?  Leland? Do we know of anyone else who was 'with Bob'?

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Posted : 25/08/2017 2:02 pm
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Steve Moss

There is no billionaire. Mr C & Jeffries funded the New York operation. 

Not sure about that, since Jeffries did not even seem to know that Mr. C was Cooper and Mr. C was questioning Jeffries as if it was one chance at an interrogation rather than a meeting with someone he is in continued contact with; and thus it was if they had never met, since business partners who know each other would not have this sort of interaction, but would be on more familiar terms with one another.....Also we had a picture of Mr. C meeting with someone in the glass box room, which was probably his boss, the billionaire....(would be appropriate if that was John Wheeler, putting a nice twist on some of season 2, would explain Audrey's predicament as well)

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Posted : 25/08/2017 2:18 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Jeffery M. Thompson

What is good and bad? These are human terms, these entities are not human and seem to rely on human instinct and emotion to feed. Are we animals upon which they feed and draw power, from our emotional investment in concepts of good and bad, but to them they are but emotions each with a different taste. Are their plans beyond our concepts of good and bad.

Word, Jeffrey M. Thompson!   IMO, Lynch deploys genre cues to seduce us into thinking in terms of simple, binary oppositions (good and evil, heroes and villains...) He then nuances, reframes, or explodes these distinctions (e.g., in Cooper's multiple selves, one expression of the hero becomes the villain; in Bobby's redemption, the anti-hero becomes ostensibly heroic--or , at least pure of heart; Andy--the fool/cowardly lion--becomes stalwart and confidently aware; we were led to believe Diane would reflect Dale Cooper's cheerful equanimity, instead we discover she is fresh out of f*cks to give...)

Some characters are hard to pin down and thereby avoid being subjected to such inversions (e.g. Big Ed and Norma are "pure goodness," like The Fireman, Margaret, and Hawk;  Bob is, ostensibly, "Pure Evil" ,,,)

But the theme of the "Evil that lurks within the hearts of men" and the manner with which Lynch plays with interior/exterior or mind-body-soul via  the mask, possession, third-eye/chakra, and spiritual ring-finger tropes leads me to believe that the constellation of supernatural characters (The Arm, etc.) embody human agency and spiritual potential above and beyond forces that act upon humans from outside/inside in the literal sense in which we are invited to interpret them... Lynch's camera captures a spiritual allegory but we perceive its poetic representations as though they were literal, documentary, reportage...  

I sense that many viewers are drawn to the literal, WYSIWYG orientation-- after all, so much in TP invites us to think, alongside Mark Frost, of the possible rational/realistic/true/material explanations that might lurk behind secrets or mysterious phenomenon....

But it might well be instead that we're dealing with something that is only as true or real as the viewer's willed credulity, so to speak-- a "Peter Pan" scenario.  Something that, I suppose, ultimately boils down to the distinction between sincerely "believing in" spirits/fairies, God(s) or ghosts and the suspension of disbelief many of us provisionally permit ourselves when reading, viewing  supernatural/fantastic stories or religious texts...

It might be that the entirety of the supernatural realm of Twin Peak's cosmology is just an abundantly rich expression of the potential for good and evil that lies within each of us but that we only feel in the form of a phantom-limb-like tingling sensation in an arm (or, in Steven's case, a leg).  Or the signal that lurks behind the noise of television "snow," as in the opening of FWWM.  Or, the heightened sensory perception and sense of conscious awareness that accompanies a good Sparkle trip. Or, the heightened self-reflexive conscious awareness that accompanies years of transcendental meditation.  Or the ingenuousness of an infant in utero, still provisionally outside the 'symbolic order...'

Uh oh. Another stream-of-conscious, rather off-topic post... (!)

 

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Posted : 25/08/2017 4:01 pm
(@murat_erol_ozkan)
Roadhouse Regular

The 'beyond good and evil' with Sarah Palmer and the alien voice that does something 'bad' under the current frame/instrument, which turns the world into one of truck drivers and convenience stores, to change the entire frame order(get rid of the orange jerky).  Also maybe with Agent Cooper as the alien voice threatening Mr. C....this whole binary of good/evil, the reversals/inversions, inability to escape the spiritual/religious dimension where things 'fall apart' into voids and vortexes that split physical nature at the quantum level, shows that one cannot  just 'enjoy the beautiful day' or factual nature as something 'real'(this is the biggest naive belief, believing that humans with their own faults and clearly failing ways of thinking/instruments are the wizard of oz/billionaires, are benign father figure protectors, perfect Gods, etc. that are 'solid fact'). 'Enjoying the beautiful day' without dreams/thinking/negation, just hands the world to the billionaire/Chad who is always behind the scenes with his own corrupted dreams(because they have become irrational with the advancements of thinking/dreams and the (dis)connected facts which follow from the implications of this instrument itself, people die, ideas change, reach their limit and must be improved).  From this failure to raise oneself out of the womb of primordial rest and think, like Mr. C desperately trying to exist and deny dreams/negation but ends up in the convenience motel; and from this comes sick nature/mother/experiment(experiment of tyrants)/convenience store out of the world, since they cannot properly deal with thinking or an inconsistent nature that is not given to us as something to worship or believe in, but requires our continued instruments/intervention, that nature has to be made worthy of belief, continuously through the process of fictions which are real, but not factually(words do not correspond to things, concepts like justice, law, freedom, etc. are not solid facts, but made from interaction of thinking people); what merely exists as fact, what one can always rely on is the wizard of oz is just a corrupted fool, tyranny, etc. 

This 'beyond good and evil' is also nicely being applied to James/Freddie.  When James was confronted with the failure of his dreams, because he always had too much naive belief that the world of Twin Peaks was set for him and fit for the true love he sought, so that when he tried to fight Bobby at Laura's funeral to defend the honor of the town, he was wrong, since the town's ethical failure to engage the binary good/evil, but instead they sunk beneath it; and Bobby was right here, this is what James was lacking and he could never understand why things always go wrong.  If James learns from Freddie, he may be finally able to come to grasp with all of these problems and begin to actualize his dreams in the world; to insist on the facts of his dreams would be to go the path of Mr. C/billionaires on a wild quest to validate an instrument/frame/approach to the world-ethics-governance that is a proven failure; which he somewhat did in a naive way by leaving town and wreaking havoc in the wake of Laura's death.  When James went to the furnace, its either Bob or join with Freddie and his green glove to actualize the real dreams, change the frame of the world, like Sarah Palmer eliminating the orange Jerky at the elk lodge.....

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Posted : 25/08/2017 5:28 pm
(@henrysteiger)
Dweller

I have no legitimate clue who wants Bob but I'll make a wild and unsubstantiated guess anyway..

Beverly's dying husband, Tom, does not want to die and he does not intend to.  A lifelong scholar of the occult and formerly employed with Major Briggs at his secret Twin Peaks facility, much of Tom's past is shrouded in mystery.  Especially his time in South America.  It was this mysterious allure that landed him smoking hot Beverly.

After his diagnosis, he exhausts every conventional and unconventional approach to wellness.  Everything is a failure.  He then turns to the arcane, an avenue he thought he'd left behind.  Possession by a lodge spirit would mean the physical repair and protection of his body.  So obsessed with his mortality and so selfishly craving more time with super babe Beverly, he's willing to partner with the evil Bob to do so..

While Beverly is fauning over the elderly Ben Horne, Tom uses a variety of digital and archaic means to manipulate Mr C and Bob into his plans..

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Posted : 25/08/2017 7:53 pm
(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: henrysteiger

I have no legitimate clue who wants Bob but I'll make a wild and unsubstantiated guess anyway..

Beverly's dying husband, Tom, does not want to die and he does not intend to.  A lifelong scholar of the occult and formerly employed with Major Briggs at his secret Twin Peaks facility, much of Tom's past is shrouded in mystery.  Especially his time in South America.  It was this mysterious allure that landed him smoking hot Beverly.

After his diagnosis, he exhausts every conventional and unconventional approach to wellness.  Everything is a failure.  He then turns to the arcane, an avenue he thought he'd left behind.  Possession by a lodge spirit would mean the physical repair and protection of his body.  So obsessed with his mortality and so selfishly craving more time with super babe Beverly, he's willing to partner with the evil Bob to do so..

While Beverly is fauning over the elderly Ben Horne, Tom uses a variety of digital and archaic means to manipulate Mr C and Bob into his plans..

Imagine the possibilities here for fan fiction after the series is over.

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Posted : 25/08/2017 9:55 pm
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