Jeffries/????????/Giant/Fireman  

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(@erimosinstitute)
Owl

The bell-shaped machine and its variations—we've now seen them in the Giant's "home," in space with Cooper and his eyeless friend (who jumped off and landed in Twin Peaks), and above the convenience store holding the essence of Jeffries—sure look like Die Glocke, the rumored Nazi time-travel/space-travel machine that was supposedly hauled off to Argentina as the Allies were closing in on the Nazis in WWII. 

I don't know (or care?) if the show ever makes explicit reference to it, because for me it's enough that Die Glocke (The Bell) continues to show up in the show, sometimes in the company of The Giant. (The German underground lab where Die Glocke was built is called The Giant, or "Der Riese," on the Czech border." And where did Jeffries disappear into the Bell?

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Posted : 21/08/2017 2:35 pm
(@klynched)
RR Diner Patron

There are actually TWO bell/stupas in the Fireman's palace, one in the room where Señorita Dido sits and where the Fireman talks too Coop and to Andy, and aldo upstairs in the movie theatre.

 

I am sure I saw one (or a similar-looking object) in something else recently. It could have been FWWM but I don't think so. Or Eraserhead? Does this ring a bell (sorry!) with anyone else?

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Posted : 21/08/2017 3:10 pm
(@micasalakota)
Town Visitor

A bell also appears in a framed picture during the scene when Jeffries reappears in the FBI Philadelphia offices in 1989 too. That whole sequence involves lots of temporal hijinx too, which has been very remniscient of this entire season's M.O. so far.  This is the same scene Coop tells Gordon Cole about his dream he had its worth noting too.

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Posted : 21/08/2017 3:37 pm
(@micasalakota)
Town Visitor
Posted by: ErimosInstitute

I don't know (or care?) if the show ever makes explicit reference to it, because for me it's enough that Die Glocke (The Bell) continues to show up in the show, sometimes in the company of The Giant. (The German underground lab where Die Glocke was built is called The Giant, or "Der Riese," on the Czech border." And where did Jeffries disappear into the Bell?

Also found this elsewhere: "Igor Pitowski supposedly got hold of transcripts of the interrogation of Jakob Sporrenberg, an SS officer who claimed to have worked one of a chain of facilities called Der Reise ("the Giant") based in the Owl Mountains in Poland... These were large Nazi facilities built underground by slave labour to escape Allied bombers. They had factories, living quarters, and laboratories, all dedicated to wunderwaffe - the secret weapons... The most interesting of these, as described by Sporrenberg, was die Glocke ("the Bell"). "

Certainly Lynch/Frost might very well have come across the concept and adapted an obscure mythology to their own for their own purposes. It sounds like it'd be up Mark Frost's street - something I'm sure he'd have known about. And aesthetically David Lynch has run with the idea really effectively in my book. Plus that Jeffries scene is becoming quite a focal point to things. If they both sat down and looked at certain scenes for clues as to how to evolve/play with ideas & concepts when they were writing this whole project, the bell in the frame certainly pops out, during the FWWM Jeffries scene. The whole idea of a bell and being associated with time and/or a specific occasion too...

The recurring imagery perhaps gives creedence to the idea that some-one, or maybe a whole swathe of people, are in fact dreaming the world too...

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Posted : 21/08/2017 4:14 pm
(@mj_gilbert)
Deputy
Posted by: micasalakota
Posted by: ErimosInstitute

I don't know (or care?) if the show ever makes explicit reference to it, because for me it's enough that Die Glocke (The Bell) continues to show up in the show, sometimes in the company of The Giant. (The German underground lab where Die Glocke was built is called The Giant, or "Der Riese," on the Czech border." And where did Jeffries disappear into the Bell?

Also found this elsewhere: "Igor Pitowski supposedly got hold of transcripts of the interrogation of Jakob Sporrenberg, an SS officer who claimed to have worked one of a chain of facilities called Der Reise ("the Giant") based in the Owl Mountains in Poland... These were large Nazi facilities built underground by slave labour to escape Allied bombers. They had factories, living quarters, and laboratories, all dedicated to wunderwaffe - the secret weapons... The most interesting of these, as described by Sporrenberg, was die Glocke ("the Bell"). "

Certainly Lynch/Frost might very well have come across the concept and adapted an obscure mythology to their own for their own purposes. It sounds like it'd be up Mark Frost's street - something I'm sure he'd have known about. And aesthetically David Lynch has run with the idea really effectively in my book. Plus that Jeffries scene is becoming quite a focal point to things. If they both sat down and looked at certain scenes for clues as to how to evolve/play with ideas & concepts when they were writing this whole project, the bell in the frame certainly pops out, during the FWWM Jeffries scene. The whole idea of a bell and being associated with time and/or a specific occasion too...

The recurring imagery perhaps gives creedence to the idea that some-one, or maybe a whole swathe of people, are in fact dreaming the world too...

Well, that is all cool (except Nazis- Nazis, unlike James, have never been cool).

Thanks for the dive!

I AM the FBI.

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Posted : 21/08/2017 4:24 pm
(@fishinthepercolator)
RR Diner Patron

So many interesting things about the meeting between Mr. C and PJ. First our favorite tea kettle tells him something like "we used to talk, do you remember?" and then Mr. C goes on about their meeting in Philadelphia, in 1989. So much stuff about this alone. A) that was actually supposed to be their first meeting ("Cooper, meet the long lost Phillip Jeffries" etc) but to me it seemed they were talking about it as if they'd known each other for a while; B) 1989 means that they decided to stick with FWWM inconsistent timeline, which means moving the events of the original show in 1990 even though they were originally set in 1989 (but 1990 is also incorrectly mentioned a few times in the original show, especially in season 2), since Laura Palmer's murdered one year after Teresa Banks, unless they want us to believe in Philly they learned about agent Desmond's disappearance only after one year. C) it seems to be implied they haven't talked with each other after that meeting (PJ denies being the one who called Cooper after he killed Darya, but more on that later), but a few things from that call (again, more later), from his meeting with Albert and Gordon and maybe other things made us (or at least me) believe they had seen each other at least a few times over the years.

Then, as already mentioned, Jeffries denies being the one who sent Ray to kill Mr. C and being the one on the line during the call that follows Darya's death. A few things are interesting here as well. The main one of course being it implies that either someone is going around claiming to be Jeffries (maybe another Philip, only with one l? Maybe Jeffries also has a doppelganger, the one in the tea kettle, and the good one is working against Mr. C?), unbeknownst to the actual Jeffries, trying to undermine Mr. C, or the actual Jeffries is just fucking with Mr. C, which doesn't look all that absurd, considering that in this conversation he seems to be pretty cryptic if not ambiguous. While he denies sending Ray to kill him, he says he called Ray and when asked again if he sent him he doesn't answer and his silence seems to speak volumes. And he seems to play with Mr. C when he asks "So you are Cooper" and when Mr. C questions him about Judy, to the point that Mr. C loses his composure.

But at the same time that call and what Mr. C and the other person told each other during it seem important to understand who/what Jeffries really is and how much these two know about each other. About the former, it seems implied in part 15 that Jeffries might not be human and/or might not have a physical form anymore (which could also be partially hinted by the fact Ray has never met him). Yet, in that conversation he mentions missing Mr. C in New York, meaning he was there and likely as a regular human being. At the same time, after he teases Mr. C about still being in Buckhorn, Mr. C strikes back, by telling him "and you're still nowhere, is that correct?" which seems to mean Mr. C knew his whereabouts.

One last tiny thing, for timeline details enthusiasts, Mr. C mentions the call (and Darya's execution) happening 5 days earlier. Also for timeline purposes: Mr. C sends the Vegas text after he lefts the meeting. So barring a distortion in time as a result to his visit to the convenience store or a second identical message as a reminder, we can tie this scene with the story arc in South Dakota when Diane receives the message, Gordon is with the french girl etc.

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Posted : 21/08/2017 4:33 pm
(@nostar)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: micasalakota

A bell also appears in a framed picture during the scene when Jeffries reappears in the FBI Philadelphia offices in 1989 too. That whole sequence involves lots of temporal hijinx too, which has been very remniscient of this entire season's M.O. so far.  This is the same scene Coop tells Gordon Cole about his dream he had its worth noting too.

The bell is interesting, but there's a good chance it's a pic of the iconic Liberty Bell, which is in Philadelphia (along with that FBI office).

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Posted : 21/08/2017 4:39 pm
(@nikolaj_nielsen)
RR Diner Patron

He moves the salt/pepper shaker close to a remote control. I got that the "bell" (Jeffries) was being controlled remotely. That's the only sense I can make of that scene. 

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Posted : 21/08/2017 4:48 pm
(@cl-owl-tp-drool)
Town Visitor

Haha Brilliant put!

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Posted : 22/08/2017 2:52 am
(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: ErimosInstitute

The bell-shaped machine and its variations—we've now seen them in the Giant's "home," in space with Cooper and his eyeless friend (who jumped off and landed in Twin Peaks), and above the convenience store holding the essence of Jeffries—sure look like Die Glocke, the rumored Nazi time-travel/space-travel machine that was supposedly hauled off to Argentina as the Allies were closing in on the Nazis in WWII. 

I don't know (or care?) if the show ever makes explicit reference to it, because for me it's enough that Die Glocke (The Bell) continues to show up in the show, sometimes in the company of The Giant. (The German underground lab where Die Glocke was built is called The Giant, or "Der Riese," on the Czech border." And where did Jeffries disappear into the Bell?

This is rather breathtaking! On a more pedestrian note, The Bell might also be a reference to Alexander Bell and the invention of the telephone, given the role of telephones in triggering these things (old rotary phones at that). 

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Posted : 22/08/2017 11:16 am
urbanCCD liked
(@lucas_bracci)
Deputy

Exclusive ! Jeffries in the staircase just before being trapped in a tea kettle :

 Stars-2.jpg

 Stars-1.jpg 

( 😀 stills from 2013 Bowie video "The Stars (are out tonight)")

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Posted : 22/08/2017 3:25 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: Fishinthepercolator

So many interesting things about the meeting between Mr. C and PJ. First our favorite tea kettle tells him something like "we used to talk, do you remember?" and then Mr. C goes on about their meeting in Philadelphia, in 1989. So much stuff about this alone. A) that was actually supposed to be their first meeting ("Cooper, meet the long lost Phillip Jeffries" etc) but to me it seemed they were talking about it as if they'd known each other for a while; B) 1989 means that they decided to stick with FWWM inconsistent timeline, which means moving the events of the original show in 1990 even though they were originally set in 1989 (but 1990 is also incorrectly mentioned a few times in the original show, especially in season 2), since Laura Palmer's murdered one year after Teresa Banks, unless they want us to believe in Philly they learned about agent Desmond's disappearance only after one year. C) it seems to be implied they haven't talked with each other after that meeting (PJ denies being the one who called Cooper after he killed Darya, but more on that later), but a few things from that call (again, more later), from his meeting with Albert and Gordon and maybe other things made us (or at least me) believe they had seen each other at least a few times over the years.

Then, as already mentioned, Jeffries denies being the one who sent Ray to kill Mr. C and being the one on the line during the call that follows Darya's death. A few things are interesting here as well. The main one of course being it implies that either someone is going around claiming to be Jeffries (maybe another Philip, only with one l? Maybe Jeffries also has a doppelganger, the one in the tea kettle, and the good one is working against Mr. C?), unbeknownst to the actual Jeffries, trying to undermine Mr. C, or the actual Jeffries is just fucking with Mr. C, which doesn't look all that absurd, considering that in this conversation he seems to be pretty cryptic if not ambiguous. While he denies sending Ray to kill him, he says he called Ray and when asked again if he sent him he doesn't answer and his silence seems to speak volumes. And he seems to play with Mr. C when he asks "So you are Cooper" and when Mr. C questions him about Judy, to the point that Mr. C loses his composure.

But at the same time that call and what Mr. C and the other person told each other during it seem important to understand who/what Jeffries really is and how much these two know about each other. About the former, it seems implied in part 15 that Jeffries might not be human and/or might not have a physical form anymore (which could also be partially hinted by the fact Ray has never met him). Yet, in that conversation he mentions missing Mr. C in New York, meaning he was there and likely as a regular human being. At the same time, after he teases Mr. C about still being in Buckhorn, Mr. C strikes back, by telling him "and you're still nowhere, is that correct?" which seems to mean Mr. C knew his whereabouts.

One last tiny thing, for timeline details enthusiasts, Mr. C mentions the call (and Darya's execution) happening 5 days earlier. Also for timeline purposes: Mr. C sends the Vegas text after he lefts the meeting. So barring a distortion in time as a result to his visit to the convenience store or a second identical message as a reminder, we can tie this scene with the story arc in South Dakota when Diane receives the message, Gordon is with the french girl etc.

Great post, lots to think about!

I would just add that when PJ (?) says on the phone "I missed you in New York", it doesn't mean he had to have a physical presence - maybe he would have appeared within the glass box. 

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Posted : 22/08/2017 3:42 pm
(@nostar)
RR Diner Patron

I took  "I missed you in New York" as mainly letting Mr. C know that his movements were being monitored.

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Posted : 22/08/2017 3:49 pm
(@fullgomenakias)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: BewareOfBob

Why I love this show: Mr. C says "Jeffries" and I wonder to myself "Yeah... yeah... David Bowie came back as a teapot... makes sense."

It might have been Bowie suggesting to Lynch to appear as a teapot. 

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Posted : 22/08/2017 4:10 pm
(@bewareofbob)
Dweller
Posted by: fullgomenakias
Posted by: BewareOfBob

Why I love this show: Mr. C says "Jeffries" and I wonder to myself "Yeah... yeah... David Bowie came back as a teapot... makes sense."

It might have been Bowie suggesting to Lynch to appear as a teapot. 

Absolutely brilliant idea! I hope we get some sort of "Behind the Scenes" after it's over.

P.S. I hope BOB doesn't come tonight.

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Posted : 23/08/2017 12:19 pm
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