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(@the-conversation-is-lively)
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Posted by: Caoimhín Shirey
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

I had forgotten about this...

 

I drew that connection straight away and loved the symmetry. Laura was taken from the Red Room against her will and Sarah seems to be a vessel; without perhaps knowing why (so in a sense it's not voluntary either). 

I associated the light in Laura as 'good' but do you think the light is an indication that Laura is empty - not possessed by anything? 

I'm really haunted by that scream Laura gives when she's pulled up. It would definitely be the kind of reaction you'd have if you were being pulled inside your mother's dark abyss of a head! 

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Posted : 14/08/2017 6:21 am
(@ash-neuro)
Lodger

Windom Earle's soul was taken by BOB so how could he posses Sarah ??

Windom Earle = non-exist-ence.

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Posted : 14/08/2017 6:35 am
(@ezekielmoist)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: The conversation is lively
Posted by: Caoimhín Shirey
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

I had forgotten about this...

 

I drew that connection straight away and loved the symmetry. Laura was taken from the Red Room against her will and Sarah seems to be a vessel; without perhaps knowing why (so in a sense it's not voluntary either). 

I associated the light in Laura as 'good' but do you think the light is an indication that Laura is empty - not possessed by anything? 

I think it's an indication she comes from the ether, as we have seen when the fireman created her. 

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Posted : 14/08/2017 9:06 am
(@jeffery_m_thompson)
Roadhouse Regular

Sarah attacks the trucker like the experiment from the glass box attacked Sam and Tracey. She just didn't feed nonstop.

Also the trucker had a bruise on his neck right where she feeds. Was trying to figure out if it was a scar or bruise right before she ripped his neck apart.

 

Lots of questions into the depth of that scene and the animal nature of these spirits. 

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Posted : 14/08/2017 9:12 am
(@fishinthepercolator)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: The conversation is lively
Posted by: Caoimhín Shirey
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

I had forgotten about this...

 

I drew that connection straight away and loved the symmetry. Laura was taken from the Red Room against her will and Sarah seems to be a vessel; without perhaps knowing why (so in a sense it's not voluntary either). 

I associated the light in Laura as 'good' but do you think the light is an indication that Laura is empty - not possessed by anything? 

I think it's an indication she comes from the ether, as we have seen when the fireman created her. 

When I rewatched that scene after episode 8 (and after reading a little about the myth of Sophia and the Demiurge) I immediately associated that shot with Mike recalling that when he saw the face of God he was changed. Not sure I can really elaborate any further, just a gut feeling, but the whole Laura is the one, the angels, her creation, give that light some kind of divine touch.

Also and perhaps I'm stating the obvious, the thing that came out of Sarah's head divoured that trucker's face in a way that reminded me of the experiment with Sam and Tracy. Last, when Sarah shows what's behind her face we saw a hand whose ring finger is black while the other fingers are white. Do we have to assume that there's a connection with the experiment/mother and the owl cave ring and thus additional mystery (as if it wasn't enough) about the ring?

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Posted : 14/08/2017 9:21 am
Myn0k, ezekielmoist, Caoimhín Shirey and 1 people liked
(@jeffery_m_thompson)
Roadhouse Regular

Not though she put her own face back on before feeding.

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Posted : 14/08/2017 9:24 am
(@eric-from-sweden)
RR Diner Patron

Yes, Windom Earle entered the Black Lodge first, with Annie, and Cooper followed after.  And inexplicably, he used Sarah as the person to pass the message onto Major Briggs.

Windom, through Sarah, says:

"I'm in the Black Lodge with Dale Cooper.  I'm waiting for you."

Oh, my God! She really does say Dale Cooper! All these years, I thought she said "I'm in the Black Lodge with Windom Earle", coz the Swedish subtitles on an old VHS recording said so! But now when I listen to it carefully, she really does say Dale Cooper! All these years..! I had to check it on the 2007 DVD-release, and there the Swedish subtitles clearly says "Dale Cooper". How could I have forgotten about this?

Here I was, thinking that she passed along a message from Dale Cooper, when she is clearly passing along a message from Windom Earle.

But anyway, if she is indeed possessed by somebody or something, how could Bob not have noticed that? Or did he infact know about what or who was inside her? Hmm...

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Posted : 14/08/2017 10:01 am
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Jeffery M. Thompson

Not though she put her own face back on before feeding.

Indeed!   FWIW, I"d encourage everyone to hold open the possibility that however dispassionate Lynch's camera has been in capturing horrific violence in The Return, this doesn't necessarily means that we are to take everything we see on screen as something that can be explained in mundane terms or by relationship to other nodes in the narrative or visual tropes... One recognizes the parallels (Laura's mask and Sarah's mask) but I think the genre trope of "possession" (in The Exorcist sense...) isn't going to map clearly onto each of the character's under the hold of supernatural forces...Part of what makes them actually "feel" supernatural to as viewers is how they deny us the formal closure of systematic explanation...

The surplus of potential meanings is key to the mystery/wonder/awe...

I'm increasingly inclined to read all of the Lodge spirits as comprising a system of myth/allegory, albeit one we are not privy to... Elsewhere someone pointed out how "Lovecraftian" this is, something I'd love to talk about elsewhere (maybe I can revive that thread)....

... Seems to point to The Lodges etc. as one culture's telling of something that can't really be encapsulated in a story, not a physical alternate plane of existence so much as a system of representing for human understanding first and last causes, i.e., eschatology... Like reading Genesis or Revelations... iirc the horses of the four horseman are crayola colors, no?  Expressive, poetic detail not reportage, I think....

What's neat, to me, is how this open-ended system of meaning reinforces the unrellability of Lynch's narrative ... 

... my expectation now is that the pieces cannot be sequenced into a linear progression through time and that nothing we know about a given Lodge spirit is necessarily transferable to any other supernatural phenomenon in the series.  Mike and Bob might well simply be something apart from The Woodsmen, from people who have supernatural energy coursing behind their "masks" ("Sarah" and "Laura"), people "infected" with bile/spittle condition...

....The most I can posit with any conviction is that The Firemen, Senorita Dido and Naido seem unambiguously to be foils to the darker Lodge spirits...

No longer sure that literal readings of Experiment/frog bug, "Laura Orb" and "Bob Orb," etc. are the most promising way to read Part 8...

... In fact, I hope that's the case.

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Posted : 14/08/2017 10:09 am
Jocelyn Rowe, MJ Gilbert, Caleb Tanner and 6 people liked
(@sycamoretrees)
Town Visitor

Don't you think Sarah could be the dreamer ? I mean the dreamer might be (I believe so) the young girl who swallowed the beast in Ep 8, and there are quite some clues that makes us believe Sarah could be that girl, so....

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Posted : 15/08/2017 10:52 am
(@naogilles)
RR Diner Patron

To me, the dreamer is not 'human'. It's more of a symbol. (If he has to be human, he's called DL or MF.)

The 'it was all a dream' thing was done in countless shows, St. Elsewhere, Dallas, Bob Newhart, Roseanne, etc... Lynch & Frost wouldn't be interested in such a cop-out. The dream thing is more akin to explaining how sometimes we get an eerie feeling in real life and not just in a dream.

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Posted : 15/08/2017 11:13 am
(@sycamoretrees)
Town Visitor

Yes you're probably right, but there are so many twists that I don't know how to think at all... First I was in a pure mind of symbolism for everything, now I'm wondering if the way wouldn't be a little less torted !... I'm not saying that it's all a dream, if it was, I think I'd be the saddest man in the world, Twin Peaks deserves a whole lot better ending ! But Monica clearly asks : who's the dreamer ?! It's Lynch, the dreamer would not be just a sleeping person of course, but I do believe that the dreamer is ONE person, and her/his role is not clear yet....

Sorry if it seems absurd, I'm just trying 🙂

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Posted : 15/08/2017 12:27 pm
(@100monkeys)
Dweller
Posted by: shrrrrrrrrrrk

I had forgotten about this...

 

Also in DL's other work:

 

 
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Posted : 15/08/2017 5:14 pm
(@naogilles)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: LaSono Cassée

Yes you're probably right, but there are so many twists that I don't know how to think at all... First I was in a pure mind of symbolism for everything, now I'm wondering if the way wouldn't be a little less torted !... I'm not saying that it's all a dream, if it was, I think I'd be the saddest man in the world, Twin Peaks deserves a whole lot better ending !

It all depends on whether or not you were okay with season 2's ending. It DID tie up many loose ends, but... Well, it wasn't really satisfying, was it? I'm sure it'll be a little less over the top this time around, though.

PS : ah ben voilà, un autre Français ! Bonjour 😉 J'ai vu ta page FB que tu étais sur Paris aussi. Twin Peaks c'est vraiment qu'un truc de bobos !

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Posted : 15/08/2017 5:58 pm
(@thommy)
Owl

Thank you for this!

I am wondering though, how you come to the idea that Sarah is the little girl in the sequence that swallows the frog-moth-thing? Because if there is any harder evidence other than the pure guessing game, than we have to lay all eyes on her.

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Posted : 15/08/2017 6:39 pm
(@xmisstwinpeaksx)
Owl

I never thought it was Windom Earle, it makes no sense since his soul was basically destroyed by Bob after he tried to run things in The Black Lodge. I always thought it was either The Arm, or Bob and now I'm thinking it's The Arm since he seems to be more of a help to Cooper. 

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Posted : 15/08/2017 9:01 pm
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