I Am Like The Blue Rose  

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(@richard_champagne_lester)
Town Visitor

Man,

I REALLY wish this would have been filmed instead of told. This would have been an amazing scene.

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Posted : 13/08/2017 9:34 pm
(@the-conversation-is-lively)
RR Diner Patron

I've felt that a number of times during this season. There's been a fair bit of plot and explanation just spoken. It's considered poor writing and It's VERY unlike Lynch to do that. 

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Posted : 14/08/2017 6:42 am
(@ezekielmoist)
RR Diner Patron

Sorry but I have to agree with the slight disappointment here.  The fact we're witnessing a whole new season of Twin Peaks makes me go easily beyond all this,  but if I put that aside I can see some weaknesses (a kind of dryness)in the writing too. 

There's nothing quite like urinating out in the open air

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Posted : 14/08/2017 6:59 am
(@fishinthepercolator)
RR Diner Patron

I kinda agree, but at the same time I'm not really sure where this could fit as a scene.

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Posted : 14/08/2017 10:28 am
(@matthew_gladney)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: The conversation is lively

I've felt that a number of times during this season. There's been a fair bit of plot and explanation just spoken. It's considered poor writing and It's VERY unlike Lynch to do that. 

One always wonders what Mark Frost's role (his real, actual role) is in all this, and I've come to believe it is the tying-up of (most) loose ends, and keeping the plot moving on-point.

So many of Lynch's films and other works that I've watched haven't featured nearly as much exposition as The Return has. I feel like that's got to be Frost going, "David, remember [x plot point]? You can't just leave that hanging. You've got to come back to that in some way."

Perhaps that sometimes creates a clash in the flow of the story? I dunno. Like, for example, as much as I enjoyed seeing Deputy Chad get arrested, it did feel very 'out of nowhere.' We never see a scene where it's obvious they're watching him, or where they get together and put together their notes. It just happens out of the blue. And, yeah, we're smart enough as an audience to know that Chad's no good, and to take the characters' words that they've been watching him, yet... it was still rather abrupt.

There are other examples, but I can't think of them at the moment.

 

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Posted : 14/08/2017 10:40 am
(@jeffery_m_thompson)
Roadhouse Regular

Sometimes in life we talk about things, sometimes we think about things. 

I find Lynch in his surreal way makes things more real. Sweeping a floor takes time, telling the story of sweeping the floor usually takes no time at all. Lynch dances between telling stories and showing stories.  For me when we see a people telling a story, the telling is important, when we see a flashback the remembering of the individual is important.  So what is important in the Blue Rose Case isn't the details of the case but that Tammy has been informed of it and she understands the idea of a constructed being. Verus Gordon remembering his dream of Cooper's dream and Jefferies, it was important he remembered not his telling. In fact Lynch points this out by having Cole realize in the telling how important it was.

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Posted : 14/08/2017 10:46 am
(@pieter)
RR Diner Patron Admin

Posted by: Matthew Gladney

 Perhaps that sometimes creates a clash in the flow of the story? I dunno. Like, for example, as much as I enjoyed seeing Deputy Chad get arrested, it did feel very 'out of nowhere.' We never see a scene where it's obvious they're watching him, or where they get together and put together their notes. It just happens out of the blue. And, yeah, we're smart enough as an audience to know that Chad's no good, and to take the characters' words that they've been watching him, yet... it was still rather abrupt.

Lucy was clearly watching him when Chad was intercepting mail. Either she was in the loop already, or her report was the final straw.

This is the water and this is the well. Drink full and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within.

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Posted : 14/08/2017 3:05 pm
(@captionhere)
Dweller
Posted by: Jeffery M. Thompson

Sometimes in life we talk about things, sometimes we think about things. 

I find Lynch in his surreal way makes things more real. Sweeping a floor takes time, telling the story of sweeping the floor usually takes no time at all. Lynch dances between telling stories and showing stories.  For me when we see a people telling a story, the telling is important, when we see a flashback the remembering of the individual is important.  So what is important in the Blue Rose Case isn't the details of the case but that Tammy has been informed of it and she understands the idea of a constructed being. Verus Gordon remembering his dream of Cooper's dream and Jefferies, it was important he remembered not his telling. In fact Lynch points this out by having Cole realize in the telling how important it was.

This was exactly what my thoughts were for so many of these scenes. some times you just say two lines to explain what is needed.

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Posted : 16/08/2017 11:49 am
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Matthew Gladney
Posted by: The conversation is lively

I've felt that a number of times during this season. There's been a fair bit of plot and explanation just spoken. It's considered poor writing and It's VERY unlike Lynch to do that. 

One always wonders what Mark Frost's role (his real, actual role) is in all this, and I've come to believe it is the tying-up of (most) loose ends, and keeping the plot moving on-point.

So many of Lynch's films and other works that I've watched haven't featured nearly as much exposition as The Return has. I feel like that's got to be Frost going, "David, remember [x plot point]? You can't just leave that hanging. You've got to come back to that in some way."

Perhaps that sometimes creates a clash in the flow of the story? I dunno. Like, for example, as much as I enjoyed seeing Deputy Chad get arrested, it did feel very 'out of nowhere.' We never see a scene where it's obvious they're watching him, or where they get together and put together their notes. It just happens out of the blue. And, yeah, we're smart enough as an audience to know that Chad's no good, and to take the characters' words that they've been watching him, yet... it was still rather abrupt.

There are other examples, but I can't think of them at the moment.

 

As for Chad though, I'm feeling (hoping) that the fact he's in the cell with Naido and Billy(???) means he will serve some purpose. I mean, I don't think this is the last we've seen of him.

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Posted : 16/08/2017 11:52 am
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular

I give another vote for: "It was important for us to see Tammy get told about the Blue Rose case." Characters are often portraying our role (Sam and Tracy wowed by a giant box on the wall; Audrey yelling "why won't you tell me). Again, Tammy is kinda playing our role here. Like it or not, she's probably going to be something very important, so we gotta keep an eye on her. 

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Posted : 16/08/2017 11:55 am
Lynn Watson, SamXTherapy, Myn0k and 1 people liked
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: Jesse Newkirk

Again, Tammy is kinda playing our role here. Like it or not, she's probably going to be something very important, so we gotta keep an eye on her. 

Hi Jesse,

Especially since Tammy was an ace archivist for The Secret History of Twin Peaks.

Not to mention she is now a member in good standing of the Blue Rose (Pleurosis? - sorry Tennessee Williams ;-)) Bunch!

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 16/08/2017 12:25 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy

Let's talk about the importance of this scene. 

We know now that the issue of doppelgangers is one that dates back, at least in terms of FBI involvement, to the 70s, where a young Gordon Cole and Philip Jeffries are investigating a suspect in a murder case. And then the doppelganger, in her dying breath, essentially acknowledged that she is artificial - a doppelganger. Then she disappears. 

To me, this suggested that the FBI has been investigating a lot of doppelganger cases under the blue rose flag. Not just lodge or supernatural cases. But cases involving doppelgangers. 

The lady shot her doppelganger. And the doppelganger died/disappeared. Now we know two things: doppelgangers disappear when they're killed, and you CAN kill your doppelganger. I'm jumping slightly to conclusions as we don't know what events took place between the original lady and her doppelganger, nor the events that led to her having a double in the physical world. 

Doppelgangers, therefore, are more common than we've so far been led to believe. How does it/the cloning happen? Did she enter the lodge and have a copy made of her? Were Theresa Banks, Laura Palmer and hey, maybe Maddie, subject to having Tulpas created after their murder?

Lots of questions. Definitely one of my favourite scenes in the series so far. 

Edit - and for what it's worth, I didn't feel this exposition needed a scene to explain it. We had the FWWM exposition and flashback. Didn't need an extra backstory filmed here - would've been overkill IMO. 

Interesting that the ones who complained about the "slow dragging" of episodes 12 and 13 are the same ones now wanting more exposition and unecessary shots 😉

Not a dig, just highlighting the difference of opinion. We can agree to disagree 🙂

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Posted : 19/08/2017 10:49 am
Lynn Watson, buttercup, Brandy Fisher and 1 people liked
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

Considering the amount of material and information presented by the show, I guess there was a choice between showing every single incident and running to 24 or more episodes, or just going for a bit of exposition here and there.

Normally, Lynch doesn't do exposition and that's one of the reasons I enjoy his stuff but I can't see a way around it here.  Not within the constraints of the show.  Imagine the conversation:

"Nah... we're going to have Albert tell Tammy; we can't afford yet another set build, lookalike stand ins and effects".

"Yup.  It's a pisser but oh well."

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 19/08/2017 11:21 am
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

Addendum:

The the writers' credit, at least it wasn't one of those "Let's tell the boss everything about how we did it, even though he should already know, since he's the boss and knows this job inside out", or "Let's tell the boss everything, even though he doesn't need to know all the technical details and doesn't know a Dilithium Crystal from the hole in his ass".

The way it was framed was at least credible.  

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 19/08/2017 11:24 am
(@the-conversation-is-lively)
RR Diner Patron

So yes, the exposition makes Blue Rose specifically about doppelgängers. That really closes down a lot of the mystery about Blue Rose cases. In FWWM, Blue Rose clearly was intended to mean something supernatural, strange and something we weren't entirely supposed to understand. Like many things in Lynch films, I was completely happy with it signalling something without having a definitive explanation. Doesn't anyone else think that giving these things a specific explanation just closes down its meaning and makes it much less interesting. The Return seems to be closing down a lot of possibilities about what things could be. I want to spend more time with Blue Rose, not necessarily have it explained away so that there is no mystery left. 

The Scene with bowie in FWWM could remain a mystery forever. It's been a great scene all theses years. I'd love to know more but I don't want an explanation.  

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Posted : 19/08/2017 11:29 am
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