Well now.. I'm gonna talk about Judy. In fact i'm gonna talk about Judy at all... Hell baby damn yeah!!  

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(@martin_diaz)
Dweller

I want to talk about Judy Garland (Briggs)

I was listening to Pink Floyd - Dark Side of The Moon, and remembered that theory about Wizard of Oz and that record being in sync ... which made me think of Judy Garland ... Judy? Garland? .. and then PUM!

This is going to be long ... it's just a theory ... ideas are appearing ...I will try to go through the facts "chronologically" is it future or is it past?

Jeffries was looking for Judy in Buenos Aires at the Palm Deluxe Hotel. "The Lady" left a letter to Jeffries. Then he dissapear for 2 years.

Why would Briggs call himself Judy? 

Maybe to avoid being tracked by MrC ... Or is a "code" name ... or just a funny way they call it in the force (I remember Windom Earle joking about his name)  or all together....

What happend in southamerica? Judy/Jeffries in Argentina, MrC in Brasil... an FBI agent get kill in Colombia.... WTF!!!

Why travel back in time and look for Jeffries? Jeffries was assigned to head the Blue Rose task force, per Cole's suggestion. 

Traveling through space and time Jeffries appears in the FBI office and looking at Cooper says:

"Well now, I'm not going to talk about Judy, in fact, we're not going to talk about Judy at all, we're gonna keep her out of it!"

Gordon answers "I know". So... He knows who Judy is.

"Who do you think this is there?" Pointing at Coop

Doesn't want to talk about "Judy" Garland Briggs, in front of Cooper. Jefries comes from the future and knows the plans of MrC (Bob)

"Judy is positive about this"

Briggs wants The Blue Rose boys to have some information, and let them know that both are in contact with Black Lodge entities (because Briggs was looking for the White Lodge).

Jeffries went to one of the meetings of the Black Lodge above a convenience store.

***********note***************

Can that scene be the moment of the "breakup" between MIKE & BOB?They were "partners in crime" until MIKE saw the face of God ...

Mike/the arm has the ring.  "With this ring I thee wed"

BOB: "I've got the fury of my ouw momentum"  He will go on his own now, without MIKE

The ring dosn't allow to be BOB host ... right?

************************************

"It was a dream ... we live inside a dream"

I think (in the Twin Peaks universe, as in other stories), the world of dreams is a physical place.

********************note***********************

The ancient Chinese believed that the moment we dream we open a portal of difficult access where we can see our life passing in a very different way.On some occasions people have recurring dreams about places they have never visited, or even heard of. Sometimes people dream of events that have not yet happened, but that could happen in the future. These dreams are images of an alternative world in which they are living a different life. We know about Coop's fascination with Tibet. Laura Dreaming and "getting" the ring.

*******************************

Jeffries found something in Seattle at Judy's. (Maybe coordinates in a secure military database in Seattle)

"And then ... there they were." He cried. "The ring, the ring..."

I think someone from Black Lodge was waiting for him. Maybe Mike, since he wants to stop Bob, and that's why he gives the ring to Jeffries.

And then (after "Mayday Mayday") Jeffries realizes this is "in the past" And disappears ...

Briggs had been led to believe that the person chosen to continue his and Douglas Milford's work at Listening Post Alpha was Dale Cooper. Briggs was unaware that Cooper had been replaced by his doppelganger from the Black Lodge. He met with Coop but immediately sensed that something was wrong and that he had misunderstood Milford's final message. ( The message contained Milford's regrets involving their work, but urged Briggs to continue)

After Cooper (MrC) left, Briggs wrote a message for his son Bobby . Then he went to Listening Post Alpha on his own, intending to send a 'MAYDAY' signal. The next day, Briggs was reported to have died in a fire at the station. Cooper (MrC) left town soon after this

Perhaps he faked his own death this time to "disappear" permanently and hide thru dimensions ... maybe MrC wants Briggs to stop him... or access the Listening Post Alpha Station or info about the White Lodge... i dont know

Someone tells Hastings to go to a certain place at a certain time. (Jeffries?)

Briggs told Ruth and Hastings that he was "hibernating" between dimensions and wanted to go to a safer place (white Lodge?)... he asked for some coordinates, which they would find at a military base  ("something in Seattle at Judy's"?)

The "place" in which Ruth and Hastings found Briggs is the one Gordon saw through the portal... there are theories that say that that staircase leads to the room of Mrs. Tremond / Chalmont's painting ... and that was The entrance to the "waiting room" of the Black Lodge 

Why would Briggs go to the Black Lodge?

Well ... if you want to stop MrC, maybe you need the help of MIKE and the only way to find it is there 

Hastings said that there were people asking for the name of his wife (Woodsman?) We know that Hasting's wife (Phyllis) knew MrC - she didn't seem very surprised to see him at home-.

Why the Black Lodge  let Cooper go, and help him? Maybe he's the only one able to stop Bob / MrC. And "be with me again". (mother? Mike?)

**********note**********

Phillip Gerard was asked if his lost arm had a tattoo and he broke down into tears and said that it said "MOM". 

Mike claimed to have a religious epiphany and repented, cutting off his own arm to rid himself of a "FIRE WALK WITH ME" tattoo, wich symbolized being touched by the "devilish one"

so... the devilish one can be the mother/experiment?

*********************

About the coordinates ....

The ones that Ruth Davenport had in her arm (Briggs request), according to Diane search ... they lead us to Twin Peaks

Briggs wanted to go somewhere safer .... Why go to Twin Peaks?

The coordinates that Ray gave MrC are from Betty, Hasting's secretary. But Hastings said he didn't know the coordinates, which Ruth wrote on his arm. He knows "The Zone" because someone told him how and when... this someone maybe is Jeffries trying to help Briggs? or someone in the FBI?

Are the same coordinates?

In summary.......

We saw Briggs head right after Naido (eyeless woman) helped Cooper, then she fall into the "void"..... And Briggs head said "Blue Rose"

So... this is after the killing of Ruth... Is this "non existent" void, the "safer place"?

Why we saw Briggs head after Naido fall?

If the safer place was that void... why he need that coordenates?

Briggs wants to get Naido into Twin Peaks?

Well if we get some Twin Peaks Police scenes in the next episodes.... they go to jack rabbits pallace... so... I remember Hawk seeing the curtains of the black lodge and then the flashlight....

Maybe Hawk sees that woman coming out there...

And I posted in other thread about seen Andy with a picnic basket and some things Harry Goaz said about this season in the promos... maybe he will establish his camp in the exact spot where the portal appears and... 

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-13/trying-to-tie-some-loose-ends-help/

Thats all Folks!!! (is about the bunny?)

 

 

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Posted : 12/08/2017 12:01 am
Jank Frones and Myn0k liked
(@devaneyfan)
Roadhouse Regular

From the little I've heard about Ep 14 spoilers, I suspect some of this is based on spoilery info.  If so, boo.  

 

"Gordon answers "I know". So... He knows who Judy is."

I'm pretty sure Gordon said this to Cooper - whose dream about this encounter was further confirmed by what Jeffries said.  Gordon seemed clueless during the entire encounter - sending both of the other agents away for water, etc. wasn't likely the best move.  

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Posted : 12/08/2017 1:05 am
(@martin_diaz)
Dweller

yeah I know... Im just using this "Judy Garland" thing and see where it goes... Like I said I was listen that record and PUM!  I think  theres things that make more sense than others, sure... Jeffries says "we live inside a dream" so... it's all Coopers dream? maybe he is "comfortably numb" after been shot at the end of season 1.... And Audrey after the last episode... she reminds me of Rita in Mullholand Drive (after all, that idea started as an spin-off series for Audrey)

Then, about the spoiler thing... (I'm not angry)

I haven't seen episode 14 because it hasn't come out yet ... and I dont want to know or read about spoilers because they'll ruin all this.... the thinking, or theorize until I watch and re-watch and got new clues/ideas... besides which is the point to declare as mine an "idea" that it doesnt ... what's the purpose of it? I wrote all this in good faith ...If I wanted to look like a champion... which is the point to do it here? in anonymity ... in a forum with people from countries far from mine... here in argentina doesnt seem to be a "popular" show. People dont even know what it is... And I have some thoughts and feelings about the show that, like you and all the member of the forum, we want to share... Sending a virtual Hug

In our TV there is no production of  "fiction series" ... there is only one, and it's like "Invitation to Love". And then some productions like "Invitation to love" but bought from other countries (turkey, brazil) it's depressing.

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Posted : 12/08/2017 2:17 am
(@steve_moss)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: JeffreyGWillett

From the little I've heard about Ep 14 spoilers, I suspect some of this is based on spoilery info.  If so, boo.  

 

"Gordon answers "I know". So... He knows who Judy is."

I'm pretty sure Gordon said this to Cooper - whose dream about this encounter was further confirmed by what Jeffries said.  Gordon seemed clueless during the entire encounter - sending both of the other agents away for water, etc. wasn't likely the best move.  

No spoilers please. 

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Posted : 12/08/2017 2:36 am
 FWWM
(@fwwm)
Dweller

Judy is the sister of Josie.

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Posted : 12/08/2017 5:02 am
(@octaviolemos)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Steve Moss
Posted by: JeffreyGWillett

From the little I've heard about Ep 14 spoilers, I suspect some of this is based on spoilery info.  If so, boo.  

 

"Gordon answers "I know". So... He knows who Judy is."

I'm pretty sure Gordon said this to Cooper - whose dream about this encounter was further confirmed by what Jeffries said.  Gordon seemed clueless during the entire encounter - sending both of the other agents away for water, etc. wasn't likely the best move.  

No spoilers please. 

Judy is the dandruff on Anthony Sinclair's shoulders. I'm heading to the beach. No spoilers there for sure.

You all have a nice weekend!

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Posted : 12/08/2017 5:55 am
(@meaxylon)
Dweller

Please, don't post stuff about episode 14 in an episode 13 thread 🙁 

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Posted : 12/08/2017 6:03 am
(@devaneyfan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Steve Moss
Posted by: JeffreyGWillett

From the little I've heard about Ep 14 spoilers, I suspect some of this is based on spoilery info.  If so, boo.  

 

"Gordon answers "I know". So... He knows who Judy is."

I'm pretty sure Gordon said this to Cooper - whose dream about this encounter was further confirmed by what Jeffries said.  Gordon seemed clueless during the entire encounter - sending both of the other agents away for water, etc. wasn't likely the best move.  

No spoilers please. 

To be clear, the OP is talking about a scene from FWWM and I was pointing out that I think he misinterpreted Gordon's "I know" comment from that old FWWM scene. Gordon does not necessarily know who Judy is. 

I'm not sure where OP was going with some of the comments made about The Return.  Some of the OP's comments about The Return seemed spoilery. 

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Posted : 12/08/2017 7:27 am
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

OP Stated:

Then, about the spoiler thing... (I'm not angry)

I haven't seen episode 14 because it hasn't come out yet ... and I dont want to know or read about spoilers because they'll ruin all this.... 

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 12/08/2017 10:17 am
dude liked
(@martin_diaz)
Dweller

about the "I know" from Gordon to Coop (FWWM scene)... Like I put it in that giant "what if..." theory up there...Cole and Jeffries went to Twin Peaks in 1883 at request of the Mayor Dwayne Milford about some facilities in Blue Pine Mountain. Those facilities are the Listening Post Alpha station. At that moment Dwayne Milford was "working" in there. Douglas sent in the FBI agents Cole and Jeffries to falsely report it to be part of Reagan's "Star Wars" Project ... The succesor of "Dougie" Milford was Garland Briggs. so MAYBE just Cole and Jeffries know who is "Judy"Garland Briggs. And only Briggs, Gordon, Jeffries....-->

  • (FWWM scene was before coop goes to Twin Peaks- Coop doesnt know yet)

-->...and Cooper has knowledge about the real work in Listening Post Alpha station... (the scene when -in 1989 after Cooper being shot- briggs shows the paper to Coop with "the owl are not what they seem". )

I think it makes sense... maybe makes sense but it isn't like that... maybe I'm faaar awaaay.... time will tell

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Posted : 12/08/2017 12:29 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy

I like this theory. 

Also, when the military staff  in The Return were sent to investigate sightings of Briggs, to me it suggested that they were expecting (even though it was unlikely) that Briggs would return at some point. They were in standby to examine any so-called Briggs sightings. 

So Jeffries im FWWM may have met with a Briggs from the future (as in a more recent Briggs from the latest timeline), and Jeffries explained his meetings with future Briggs to the FBI . Therefore, Cole and by extension the military were expecting Briggs to make an appearance in 2016. 

... If that makes sense. 

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Posted : 12/08/2017 12:55 pm
(@martin_diaz)
Dweller

 

 

About the coordinates ....

The ones that Ruth Davenport had in her arm (Briggs request), according to Diane search ... they lead us to Twin Peaks

Briggs wanted to go somewhere safer .... Why go to Twin Peaks?

The coordinates that Ray gave MrC are from Betty, Hasting's secretary. But Hastings said he didn't know the coordinates, which Ruth wrote on his arm. He knows "The Zone" because someone told him how and when... this someone maybe is Jeffries trying to help Briggs? or someone in the FBI?

Are the same coordinates?

In summary.......

We saw Briggs head right after Naido (eyeless woman) helped Cooper, then she fall into the "void"..... And Briggs head said "Blue Rose"

So... this is after the killing of Ruth... Is this "non existent" void, the "safer place"?

Why we saw Briggs head after Naido fall?

If the safer place was that void... why he need that coordenates?

Briggs wants to get Naido into Twin Peaks?

Well if we get some Twin Peaks Police scenes in the next episodes.... they go to jack rabbits pallace... so... I remember Hawk seeing the curtains of the black lodge and then the flashlight....

Maybe Hawk sees that woman coming out there...

And I posted in other thread about seen Andy with a picnic basket and some things Harry Goaz said about this season in the promos... maybe he will establish his camp in the exact spot where the portal appears and... 

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-13/trying-to-tie-some-loose-ends-help/

Thats all Folks!!! (is about the bunny?)

I miss something that I have in my notes and was important... when I said that (MAYBE) Briggs and the eyeless woman are conected somehow... Is because the watch of the "American Girl"

SAT 1(saturday) - 2:53:00 (AM or PM?) those things happened in that moment...

like in "Jack Rabbits Pallace" note... 

We dont know where is Jack Rabbits Palace... I dont think this is at  Glastonbury Grove (Entrance to the waiting room of the Black Lodge) when we saw Hawk seeing the drapes of the Black Lodge... maybe that happend SUN2 (the second date) because Hawk told Margaret (Log Lady)  "something is supposed to happend today" or something like that.... and I said this because some people think that this scene (episode 1or2) with Hawk and Margaret is happening in some "future" events... (maybe they're right)

Maybe at that place 253 yards of JRP is the entrance to the White Lodge.... 

A detail....

In the very first scene of this season we saw Cooper and ???????. Cooper doesn't have the FBI pin. Is like when he goes thru the outlet and switch with Dougie. No shoes, no pin. Maybe this black and white scene was set in some near future when Cooper FINALLY wakes up. Because in all of the scenes in the red room and purple room he has the FBI pin and when he goes thru the outlet he left his shoes (and I think the pin too)

this is from another thread I wrote...  Link above

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Posted : 12/08/2017 2:18 pm
 FWWM
(@fwwm)
Dweller

Twin sister.

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Posted : 12/08/2017 8:24 pm
(@colin_basterfield)
RR Diner Patron

I'm taking the OP's post on face value, i.e. positing a theory based on what we have so far, both in all its forms, two seasons, FWWM and TSHOTP. If it was a way to introduce things that leaked out of part 14, then it's a pretty intricate veil. That would be such a spiteful act and reveal so much about the spiter's psyche (new word!). Given how authentic and lovely we all are on here, well apart from... I'm kidding! 🙂 I doubt anyone would join with that intent. I think it's fair to say we all want to know and not want to know what's coming depending on the wind direction, the last time next door mowed their lawn etc and if we accidentally found out something it could begin a small fire in our pockets, but to tell other people? I, personally couldn't live with that guilt, obviously in part because I wouldn't want it done to me.

So, to the theory, I love the Judy Garland connection. I'd not heard the DSOTM parallel with the Wizard of Oz, so given that is one of my all time fave albums, I'm intrigued there also. There are lots of assumptions made, some rather tenuous, but as good as any, but it certainly adds up to a distinct possibility. I've always been so intrigued by the whole Judy part of what Jeffries said. That whole scene is surreal and I think, given Bowie's death perhaps, has elevated it to an almost mythical status. 

I have posted this somewhere on here before, but this article talks about Judy - 

http://abovethestore.blogspot.co.nz/2009/04/judy-judy-judy.html

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Posted : 12/08/2017 9:53 pm
(@colin_basterfield)
RR Diner Patron

Holy Toledo! I've just had an epiphany!

What if, rather than the OP choosing to weave a spider's web of deceit to let us in on some secrets about part 14 to make himself feel clever and / or mean, he, given he's from Argentina is actually in on this whole thing and like Lynch and Frost have been all along, toying with us? How do we know he isn't Jeffries himself? A love child of Jeffries and Judy, or a close associate? Someone in Buenos Aires put that box there, that shrunk down to something else when the lights came on. If I think about it, and include that there is such a website as search for the zone, then how much more of a stretch is this?

So OP, we have questions!

1. Are you Philip Jeffries?

The other two hundred questions (at last count) hinge on the answer to 1 above.

;-);-);-)

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Posted : 12/08/2017 10:10 pm
Myn0k liked
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