I think the original show wasn't really all that different in the way it kept procrastinating answers to mysteries while bringing up new questions and new confusing storylines. They notoriously (and infamously) had to answer more questions than they were willing to, most prominently the one about the main mystery, the identity of Laura's killer, and the show fell apart after they were forced to reveal it. Meaning, sometimes creators know better than the us what we want to see and what's better for the audience. If any I believe it made them even more unwilling to give quick answers and resolution.
And boy it did have a lot of filler scenes. I just believe that because many had the chance to binge-watch it (and because it had a definitely lighter mood) they feel as if it was more different than it actually is (at least from that perspective). But boy it was confusing. I'm a fellow binge-watcher, and I believe being able to watch 3-4-5-6 episodes in a row when something wasn't clear definitely helped not ending each episode with a constant WTF feeling that I probably would have had if I had to keep waiting a week for each episode.
Personally I do miss the more canonic episode format a little, especially with the way each episode ended in a cliffhanger. But at the same time I can't help but wait for the whole thing to be over to be able to say how much I like it. I think I probably wouldn't have liked much anything after the killer is revealed in season 2 if it wasn't for that incredible finale. As of now I feel that while not everything might be thrilling or part of a compelling storytelling, the lows of this season are much higher of those of the original show, especially of season 2, which were simply embarassing at times, and some highs were mindblowing.
As for the "why cut it in episodes if it's a 18 hour long movie" question, it seems pretty obvious that a) nobody would have green-lighted 18 hours of movie, especially considering how Lynch (and many other directors/critics/writers) pointed out many times that art house is dead and the movie industry is almost polarized between low-budget indies and blockbusters with budget's higher than some small countries GDP. It would have been impossible to put together the kind of budget necessary to put out a decent job (or one that could be satisfying for Lynch's standards) and anyway I don't think any theater outside of Los Angeles, NY and some other big cities could have given a screen for an 18 hour movie, which would have killed the distribution since the beginning. b) given that cinema was not an option, TV was the only way to go and TV works with serialized formats. You might try to experiment with that format, but you can't completely get rid of it.
Final thing and I'm done, about numbers not justifying a season 4. I don't think it has much to do with the last few episodes. TV ratings have been very low since the premiere. It has to be said that the streaming numbers were at the beginning very high and Showtime registered record numbers for new subscriptions in the day of the premiere and those near it. I haven't really checked if they have been steady since then, but you'd expect that people who susbscribed to the service only to watch Peaks have kept watching it. But anyways Showtime has a history of renewing shows with so-so ratings. While probably those weren't as expensive as Twin Peaks, they also don't have the same name and potential legacy. So I don't think ratings are necessarily the biggest threat for a fourth season. I'm just not sure how Lynch would be interested and how much time it will take.
Lynch & Frost know what they are doing. I have enjoyed it immensely so far & I have complete faith in them.
I am super curious about the possibility of a fourth season. Obviously they aren't going to answer all the questions, so I'm sure that somehow a fourth season COULD be filmed. I agree with the idea that it would be up to Lynch's interest, but also who is still around. I feel like they lost so many people. How many episodes did we see an "in memory of" at the end of?
I don't want it to be over because I'm afraid it will be over for good this time!
If the Return is less about plot and more of a 'mood piece' then that prevailing mood is disappointment. Extended scenes about franchising do not have mood. The failed poisoning wasn't exactly tense or funny. The arm wrestling contest also wasn't atmospheric. Could it be that these are just clichéd scenes that aren't very well directed?
Not the best episode for me either.
I hear you man. It was a fun ride but for me last night passed a point where I am all but convinced that my final take on all this will be slight disappointment
If the Return is less about plot and more of a 'mood piece' then that prevailing mood is disappointment. Extended scenes about franchising do not have mood. The failed poisoning wasn't exactly tense or funny. The arm wrestling contest also wasn't atmospheric. Could it be that these are just clichéd scenes that aren't very well directed?
Lynch plays with, juxtaposes, and thereby parodies genre conventions-- originally detective noir, soap opera, and high-school drama, etc. now, a broader range of genres/tropes/self-references
this, IMO, helps account for why the arm wrestling scene looked like a cheap version of The Expendables...I found it gripping and hilarious at the same time-- what could be more characteristic of Twin Peaks? (Other than maybe 'terrifying' and 'beautiful' or 'dead' and 'female?')
I'd like to remind all that declaring what one's reaction was as how the episode is ... states objectively your subjective response. I say this only because I have benefited from the reminder elsewhere on the forum
I am super curious about the possibility of a fourth season. Obviously they aren't going to answer all the questions, so I'm sure that somehow a fourth season COULD be filmed. I agree with the idea that it would be up to Lynch's interest, but also who is still around. I feel like they lost so many people. How many episodes did we see an "in memory of" at the end of?
I don't want it to be over because I'm afraid it will be over for good this time!
Hi Christen,
I think the title of Mark Frost's book - to be published after the Return has finished returning - is definitive:
Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier.
As sad as that makes me to say it. 🙁
- /< /\ /> -
I think it's safe to say that nobody could have predicted or expected the kind of show The Return has turned out to be. If not fulfilling audience expectation was a goal, and it could have been, since nothing David Lynch has ever done catered to audience expectation - then the team has succeeded.
Love it, hate it, feel ambivalent about it - I'm solidly from the school of thought that if someone is waiting expectantly for an Explanation and a Resolution to Everything, - then that will guarantee disappointment when the series comes to an end. As already said on this thread several times in different ways, this isn't about plot. It is about mystery and mood.
We should probably think of Lynch films, and how they don't have tidy, conventional, "well made" scripts or conclusions - then we'll be more prepared for how this all comes to a close.
but there is 5 hours left I feel like there is no point to any of this .. besides the bad cooper scene and Richard being there was the best part.. do I really need to know how chantel and hutch feel about Utah?? Come tf on ..
I think it was meant to show Mr. C/ruler of formica table/green, control over them, how they have accepted the ring, while Mr. C had to force it onto Ray and kill him. Hutch accepts being a cuckold for Mr. C/billionaires ruling ideas, while Bobby and Ed are having problems with Norma and Shelly for putting this on them.....shows contrast how Mr. C/Dougie/Billionaire's 'green'/law is accepted or taken as a problem. Hutch and Chantal are just noting the way 'things are' in Utah, Mr. C is just the boss, this is the law/green(cant drink coffee, etc., 'end your story'), etc., but I wonder if this thinking about 'how things are' will open up space for them to betray Mr. C...
I think everyone has a right to their opinion -- and if you don't like The Return, that's totally cool. I happen to love it, but again, to each their own.
Still, I gotta say, the reasons for some of the negativity on this board are baffling to me. Lack of answers, slow pace, non-sequiturs, loose ends ... you know you're watching Twin Peaks, right? By David Lynch and Mark Frost? Everything about them and the legacy of the show stands in direct opposition to giving answers and tying up loose ends and doing what you expect or giving you what you think you want. The original show ended on a quarter-century-long cliffhanger and never would have revealed Laura's killer at all if ABC didn't force it. It was corny and odd and all over the place and wonderful. That the show now is completely unpredictable and wacky and disorienting and messy and amazing and everything in between -- not just week to week, but scene to scene -- is exactly what makes it Twin Peaks.
Again, that doesn't mean you have to like it. You most certainly don't. But I wonder, as I read some of the threads here, why some people -- not everyone, but some -- were watching in the first place.
I think everyone has a right to their opinion -- and if you don't like The Return, that's totally cool. I happen to love it, but again, to each their own.
Still, I gotta say, the reasons for some of the negativity on this board are baffling to me. Lack of answers, slow pace, non-sequiturs, loose ends ... you know you're watching Twin Peaks, right? By David Lynch and Mark Frost? Everything about them and the legacy of the show stands in direct opposition to giving answers and tying up loose ends and doing what you expect or giving you what you think you want. The original show ended on a quarter-century-long cliffhanger and never would have revealed Laura's killer at all if ABC didn't force it. It was corny and odd and all over the place and wonderful. That the show now is completely unpredictable and wacky and disorienting and messy and amazing and everything in between -- not just week to week, but scene to scene -- is exactly what makes it Twin Peaks.
Again, that doesn't mean you have to like it. You most certainly don't. But I wonder, as I read some of the threads here, why some people -- not everyone, but some -- were watching in the first place.
Perfectly said, thebigm.
🙂
I don't buy the "Lynch doesn't cater to anyone" premise. There is a reason for him being the only popular and consistently acclaimed living surrealist. That reason is that he has built up a brand and a cult following. He has been remarkably faithful to his formula actually. He is no Billy Wilder who could produce several enduring classics in drastically different genres even during the old Hollywood studio system which tied directors' hands in the creative sense.
I would truly believe that Lynch doesn't care about pleasing fans once he puts out some piece of arthouse not distintly Lynchian in style. Now that would TRULY upend expectations. And the constant 4th wall trolling in this show is so tiresome that it suggests a downright obsession with the audience. His instantly recognisable dress and hairstyle suggest keeping up an image (think Lagerfeld with his sunnies). He's an auteur, but also one business-savvy enough to have survived and gained prominence in the Hollywood system. A typical self-absorbed artist can't do that. There might be hordes of other Lynches out there who we've never heard of because they haven't had his luck and professional smarts.
In terms of how it may end, well, it could end horribly (from the point of view of the idea of 'good'). Just think of the finale of season 2, and that really could have been the end.
I don't think there are so many questions that need be answered in this season. It's really more a mood piece.
This!
I think that David Lynch and Mark Frost don't really care for solving mysteries. I think it is a combination of a mood piece by Lynch, and Mark Frost trying to generate as many other questions in audience's minds that will ultimately be unsolvable and unresolved.
Most of Lynch's works end on a happy note though, so all of us should be happy for that!
Well, except Lost Highway, that wasn't a happy ending. Oh yeah, and Mullholland Dr., that wasn't happy either. The Straight Story and The Elephant Man had happy endings, well, amibiguously. And Inland Empire wasn't happy either, that film's main character ended up trapped in a room forever....oh....I guess Twin Peaks will not have a happy ending after all.
If you think Inland Empire ended like that I urge you to re-watch.
Fire walk with