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(@myn0k)
Deputy

Viewers who are getting impatient and wanting answers sooner, maybe try seeing the series less as an episodic format, and more like a musical movement. There are peaks and dips, movements you like more than others. But overall the final pattern is necessary. 

I'm not saying this to apologise on behalf of the episode, because for me i enjoyed it immensely. We got a lot of good answers IMO. It's allowed things to move on to the next phase. 

The series will conclude, and we'll get some (not necessarily all) answers. So hang on in there. Let the scenes/movements unfold. 

And I can betcha you'll be hankering for more once it's all over 😉

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Posted : 03/08/2017 1:14 pm
(@groovy-llama-fan)
Dweller

The problem with that argument is that Showtime's dolling it out in traditional episodic fashion and the eps have lavish opening + closing credits and Roadhouse scenes to punctuate them. This  18-hour movie business isn't working with the format it's delivered in.

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Posted : 03/08/2017 1:46 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: groovy-llama-fan

The problem with that argument is that Showtime's dolling it out in traditional episodic fashion and the eps have lavish opening + closing credits and Roadhouse scenes to punctuate them. This  18-hour movie business isn't working with the format it's delivered in.

Do you really think the series isn't working? 

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Posted : 03/08/2017 2:12 pm
(@caoimhin)
Detective
Posted by: groovy-llama-fan

The problem with that argument is that Showtime's dolling it out in traditional episodic fashion and the eps have lavish opening + closing credits and Roadhouse scenes to punctuate them. This  18-hour movie business isn't working with the format it's delivered in.

It's not Showtime but Lynch and Frost that decided on the delivery and I think they're using the one-episode-per-week format to great effect. Binge watching isn't going to allow most viewers to contemplate specific scenes or catch all the details. I discuss and rewatch each part to the point of exhaustion. When all 18 parts are available and I can binge watch them, I'll be much more engaged and understanding, since I watched in the traditional per week format. I can't wait! 

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Posted : 03/08/2017 2:40 pm
(@thegreatnortherner)
Lodger

Nihilistic is a good way of terming it.  I'm not offended by movie violence, but the relentless atmosphere of grimness can get a bit much.  Most of the characters this time around seem to be relentlessly mean-spirited and/or violent.  There are, of course, exceptions, but where this differs from S1 and S2 is that there were moments of real levity that, ironically, made the violence and darkness even more horrific.  This jarring juxtaposition of light and dark was what got me the first time around.  I haven't seen anything in the return nearly as horrific as Maddy Ferguson's death.  Yet we had a light to guide us through - Cooper.

Actually, I just realized, maybe the reason why I haven't been as emotionally invested in this series is because it's missing that essential component of storytelling - a protagonist.  Seriously, if anyone can tell me who the main protagonist of the current series is, I'd love to know.

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Posted : 03/08/2017 4:08 pm
(@mj_gilbert)
Deputy

At the moment, it is Gordon. However, I think this story is ultimately about Dale's journey. As has been refelcted elsewhere, the title of the new series, 'The Return" refers to Dale.

he IS the protagnonist. The fact that he is "absent" at the moment is part of what, for me, is the very involving tension of TPTR. I honor your response, and reply that I am ENTIRELY emotionally involved, certainly more so than I was when James was "under the hood" of whats-her-name, or Dick was breaking into the orphanage records to find out if Little Nicky was a devil spawn.

I AM the FBI.

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Posted : 03/08/2017 4:16 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: snapsnappo

Nihilistic is a good way of terming it.  I'm not offended by movie violence, but the relentless atmosphere of grimness can get a bit much.  Most of the characters this time around seem to be relentlessly mean-spirited and/or violent.  There are, of course, exceptions, but where this differs from S1 and S2 is that there were moments of real levity that, ironically, made the violence and darkness even more horrific.  This jarring juxtaposition of light and dark was what got me the first time around.  I haven't seen anything in the return nearly as horrific as Maddy Ferguson's death.  Yet we had a light to guide us through - Cooper.

Actually, I just realized, maybe the reason why I haven't been as emotionally invested in this series is because it's missing that essential component of storytelling - a protagonist.  Seriously, if anyone can tell me who the main protagonist of the current series is, I'd love to know.

That's an interesting take. And you raise a good point about a lack of any real protagonist. I would argue it would be Sheriff Truman and Hawk, but they're not in it frequently enough to be classed as the main protagonists. 

The bleakness to me suggests that there is something really wrong in twin peaks and the surrounding area that needs resolving. I think the bleakness is very much specific to the story. 

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Posted : 03/08/2017 4:18 pm
(@thegreatnortherner)
Lodger
Posted by: MJ Gilbert

At the moment, it is Gordon. However, I think this story is ultimately about Dale's journey. As has been refelcted elsewhere, the title of the new series, 'The Return" refers to Dale.

he IS the protagnonist. The fact that he is "absent" at the moment is part of what, for me, is the very involving tension of TPTR. I honor your response, and reply that I am ENTIRELY emotionally involved, certainly more so than I was when James was "under the hood" of whats-her-name, or Dick was breaking into the orphanage records to find out if Little Nicky was a devil spawn.

Okay, I don't think anyone would seriously say that the silly sub-plots in S2 were any good at all.  One of the advantages for me of seeing the series on VHS the first time around was that I could fast forward through all that.  The reason they existed at all was to fill airtime in a series that had lost most of its direction and was literally being made up as it went along.  Difference now is that this series was completely written before a single frame was shot.  As an example, apart from it being a pretty clumsy satire on the likes of Infowars, what exactly is the point of wasting precious screen time on Dr Jacoby?

If someone had tried to tell me last year that a major plot strand of the new Twin Peaks would be all about insurance fraud in Las Vegas, I would have though they were taking the piss and laughed my head off.

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Posted : 03/08/2017 4:36 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy
Posted by: snapsnappo
Posted by: MJ Gilbert

At the moment, it is Gordon. However, I think this story is ultimately about Dale's journey. As has been refelcted elsewhere, the title of the new series, 'The Return" refers to Dale.

he IS the protagnonist. The fact that he is "absent" at the moment is part of what, for me, is the very involving tension of TPTR. I honor your response, and reply that I am ENTIRELY emotionally involved, certainly more so than I was when James was "under the hood" of whats-her-name, or Dick was breaking into the orphanage records to find out if Little Nicky was a devil spawn.

Okay, I don't think anyone would seriously say that the silly sub-plots in S2 were any good at all.  One of the advantages for me of seeing the series on VHS the first time around was that I could fast forward through all that.  The reason they existed at all was to fill airtime in a series that had lost most of its direction and was literally being made up as it went along.  Difference now is that this series was completely written before a single frame was shot.  As an example, apart from it being a pretty clumsy satire on the likes of Infowars, what exactly is the point of wasting precious screen time on Dr Jacoby?

If someone had tried to tell me last year that a major plot strand of the new Twin Peaks would be all about insurance fraud in Las Vegas, I would have though they were taking the piss and laughed my head off.

I would imagine the Jacoby and Nadine scenes will end up relevant somehow. Perhaps Jacoby's broadcasts get rudely taken off air and it makes Nadine go flip. 

Then again who knows!

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Posted : 03/08/2017 4:46 pm
(@mj_gilbert)
Deputy

I think the elsewhere- mentioned theory of the Woodsmen impinging on Dr. Amp's broadcast is a very interesting one!

I AM the FBI.

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Posted : 03/08/2017 4:51 pm
(@roberto_bella)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: groovy-llama-fan

Did Inland Empire lead to anything in the end? I have yet to see an ep of The Return that comes anywhere close to the magic of the original. It's so relentlessly cold and nihilistic in spirit. Clever and artful, but cold. MacLachlan's performance is just about the only human, genuine thing about it, and so far this whole trip has turned me into more of a Kyle fan, than a Lynch/Frost fan.

Perhaps that is part of my reservation about The Return so far. It does seem colder and more nihilistic than the original series. I mean, my mom loved the original series but she's not sure she wants to watch the new one and I'm not sure I would recommend it to her. Yet I'm undeniably fascinated and will watch until the end.

Inland Empire was quite a challenge. The first half felt very much like Mulholland Drive, and I thought "ok, great, we're headed somewhere." Then it literally felt like it disintegrated. I tried watching a few more times but it felt so inward to itself as to be impenetrable.

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Posted : 03/08/2017 5:00 pm
(@colin_basterfield)
RR Diner Patron

Many moons ago there was a Star Trek Convention and the honoured guest was none other than William Shatner (Denny Crane to the younger of us - yea right!). Apparently someone asked him about the insignia on all the shirts they wore in Star Trek. Shatner replied,  'Get a life.' 

One of the inspirations for Roger Waters when he wrote Pink Floyd's The Wall was when he found himself spitting at a fan in the front row. 

I can't speak for anyone else here, so I'll stick to the I. I wonder if I'm taking this return far too seriously. I'm noticing how earnest I've become about it, and whether I should take a step back and let it take me wherever it wants and after all it's only a bloody television programme.

Feel free to flame me for that last comment, but I'm logging off here for now. Thanks for all the  wonderful discourse to date.

See you all on the other side, maybe... 😉

 

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Posted : 03/08/2017 5:27 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: Mark Chamberlain Stevens

R.I.P., Sam Shepard.

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 04/08/2017 12:20 pm
(@chris_gorgon)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Colin Basterfield

Many moons ago there was a Star Trek Convention and the honoured guest was none other than William Shatner (Denny Crane to the younger of us - yea right!). Apparently someone asked him about the insignia on all the shirts they wore in Star Trek. Shatner replied,  'Get a life.' 

 

That Shatner comment was in a Saturday Night Live skit.  😉

 

Regarding the tone of the show, I think it's certainly quite a bit darker than the original, but also funnier.  The original had more light moments that made me chuckle, but there are times with this season that I'm laughing out loud.  

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Posted : 04/08/2017 9:28 pm
(@caleb_tanner)
Dweller
Posted by: Jesse Newkirk

This is one of the things that makes it good TO ME. I, like some others (Lynch apologists??), are thinking we'll come back to the Audrey scene down the road and think, "wow! It was so much better than I first thought."

Recall back to Episode 5, titled "Don't Die, Don't Die." It seemed to be a message perhaps to fans who were watching expecting a nostalgic return straight to Twin Peaks and instead got two hours of Eraserhead-esque Black Lodge business followed by a dribbling wordless Cooper wandering around a casino. MIKE and Lynch were maybe saying, "Don't Die [Don't quit. It will be worth it in the end!]

Episode 11 was the most Twin Peaks-filled we've seen, and I certainly got a humongous rush out of it, expecting for all things to continue evolving in that direction. Lynch being Lynch had to break up my expectations. If he didn't do enough of this, it would turn into just any other TV show.

I continually return to thoughts of longform classical/romantic music and how many obstacles composers like Wagner or Mahler put up between the audience and the final resolution to a peaceful chord. Those composers could have written shorter, faster-paced pieces that move straight to the final cadence. Instead, they frequently break up the momentum and introduce diversions in the key, moving us further from the resolution our brains crave. Thanks to all that diversion, our craving and expectation builds up more and more, and the final resolution is all the more heavenly.

The return of Dale Cooper could be like Wagner's "Liebstod." I'm not sure Lynch/Frost will resolve things so peacefully; maybe we'll get no resolution. Nevertheless, the tearing our hair out and yelling at the TV "You won't tell me what Tina said on the phone??!?!?" is part of the trip!!

Amen.  I think some folks believe that if they just had the script and melted it down and shot it in their neck, they'd enjoy and appreciate it.  Context, cadence, distraction, lulls and starts, joy grief humor - just throw it all out so we can have the facts.  Patience!  Being!  Connection!

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Posted : 05/08/2017 1:52 am
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