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(@julie_loader)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Chris Flackett

The Annie thing bugs me no end to. Whether Lynch likes it or not, it was a big driving force at the end of the original series and I think the character deserved a little more respect (plus the Diane thing makes no sense - when did it happen? Where?)

On a side note of useless information, take the D away from Diane, add another n, then rearrange the letters and you get Annie. Spooky, eh? 😂

And Naido

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Posted : 13/05/2018 6:22 pm
(@caemeron)
Deputy

What was the thing?

(C)andie

Naid(O)

(L)inda

Dian(E)

?

I am tempted to say people read too much into this, but I also recall seeing it before the show did the Naido/Diane switcheroo, as a part of people theorizing that Naido was Diane, so... ?

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Posted : 13/05/2018 8:26 pm
(@julie_loader)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

What was the thing?

(C)andie

Naid(O)

(L)inda

Dian(E)

?

I am tempted to say people read too much into this, but I also recall seeing it before the show did the Naido/Diane switcheroo, as a part of people theorizing that Naido was Diane, so... ?

Was Naido Diane?

Why did she have a black thingy as a head? And why did it go to the red room?

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Posted : 13/05/2018 9:24 pm
(@caemeron)
Deputy
Posted by: Julie Loader
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

What was the thing?

(C)andie

Naid(O)

(L)inda

Dian(E)

?

I am tempted to say people read too much into this, but I also recall seeing it before the show did the Naido/Diane switcheroo, as a part of people theorizing that Naido was Diane, so... ?

Was Naido Diane?

Why did she have a black thingy as a head? And why did it go to the red room?

I am still rather hung up on that myself. Further, was Diane Diane in those last parts? I have yet to settle on an interpretation

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/05/2018 9:46 pm
(@julie_loader)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
Posted by: Julie Loader
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

What was the thing?

(C)andie

Naid(O)

(L)inda

Dian(E)

?

I am tempted to say people read too much into this, but I also recall seeing it before the show did the Naido/Diane switcheroo, as a part of people theorizing that Naido was Diane, so... ?

Was Naido Diane?

Why did she have a black thingy as a head? And why did it go to the red room?

I am still rather hung up on that myself. Further, was Diane Diane in those last parts? I have yet to settle on an interpretation

I know!

And when did they fall in love?

I have a bit of an idea that when he sees  her at the curtain call, they are already in love, and obviously at the sheriff station  they are definitely  in love, just not sure how to fit it all in. 

I cannot figure out why Naidos head turned into a nasty looking blob, and why did it go to the red room? 

All I  can come up with is that Mr C captured Diane after raping her and sent her to the red room where he made the tulpa Diane. That would mean that they could've had 25 years to fall in love.

Perhaps the fireman plucked real Diane from the red room and turned her into Naido and seng her to the purple palace to wait for Cooper and help him.

 

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Posted : 14/05/2018 1:33 am
(@brian_hardin_ii)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

I can't for the life of me recall anything resembling a source, but somewhere I got the notion that Ontkean has himself been dealing with health issues. I think there was maybe something where it seemed like he was on board to come back, and then withdrew. Anyone know what I am talking about? Am I making things up? Did this just happen in a dream?

 

This is exactly what happened.  In fact, He was approached by Lynch to return and initially agreed.  He then sent to work trying to find the jacket he wore back in Season 1 and 2, and ended up getting a replica.  You can read more about it here on welcome to twin peaks:  http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/michael-ontkean-not-new-twin-peaks/

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Posted : 14/05/2018 11:32 am
(@lucas_bracci)
Deputy

At the end of next month, new Twin Peaks trading cards will be released by Rittenhouse.

With cards from the original series and cards from The Return.

In some packs, it's possible to get a genuine autograph in it.

Including Michael Ontkean autograph alone or a dual autograph with Kyle MacLachlan.

So I don't know if he had some health issue 3 years ago, but in 2018 he had signed some trading cards.

2018 Rittenhouse Twin Peaks Checklist and Details

 

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Posted : 14/05/2018 12:38 pm
(@brian_hardin_ii)
RR Diner Patron

Kinda cool.  I looked around and found prices on pre-orders ranging from $79.00 to $120.00

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Posted : 14/05/2018 12:43 pm
(@caemeron)
Deputy
Posted by: Brian Hardin II
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

I can't for the life of me recall anything resembling a source, but somewhere I got the notion that Ontkean has himself been dealing with health issues. I think there was maybe something where it seemed like he was on board to come back, and then withdrew. Anyone know what I am talking about? Am I making things up? Did this just happen in a dream?

 

This is exactly what happened.  In fact, He was approached by Lynch to return and initially agreed.  He then sent to work trying to find the jacket he wore back in Season 1 and 2, and ended up getting a replica.  You can read more about it here on welcome to twin peaks:  http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/michael-ontkean-not-new-twin-peaks/

Thanks. That is what I was thinking of. It doesn't confirm that the issue pertained to his health, of course, but this bit about him wanting to come back, looking for the jacket, and then backing out is what led me to speculate it was likely something like that. And then the way they handled his character in s3 probably bolstered that thought in my mind. Could have been another reason, though, I suppose. Thanks for refreshing my memory on this source, regardless.

 

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Posted : 14/05/2018 4:02 pm
(@brian_hardin_ii)
RR Diner Patron

What was the hand shaking about in the final episode (or final 2 episodes) of Season 2?

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Posted : 14/05/2018 4:29 pm
(@brian_hardin_ii)
RR Diner Patron

So, I saw a video this weekend that tried to compare the Giant from our first go around to the Fireman in The Return.

Are they the same entity is basically what the video was about.

The conclusion was this; the Giant gave Cooper 3 clues.  The clues were revealed to Cooper at a time in which they made sense.  The audience, when they were provided (Opening of Season 2), was left scratching our heads.  BUT, as mentioned, the clues were revealed to Cooper and when they were they made sense to him as well as to us.

The Fireman also gave Cooper clues in The Return (richard and linda, 430, the sounds are in our house now).  However, the biggest difference is that their reveal made little sense (if any) to Cooper and even less to the audience.  We are still guessing what Richard and Linda was all about, and even when the reveal is made (cooper reads the note from linda as addressed to richard) to Cooper - he has no idea what it means.  In a previous scene, Cooper and Diane drive 430 miles, but from where and why?  I mean, we have pieced together that at mile 430 there was some kind of portal or something, but we have only been able to guess.  (A smiling bag it was not, and it certainly did not 'without chemicals he points; ).  Further, the sounds on the record player, while we hear it in the final episode, again it's reveal really means nothing to anyone.

I think that's part of the biggest thing against The Return is that it didn't exactly follow the "rules" that were established in the first two seasons (although, I do realize that much of season 2, Lynch and Frost had little input on).

The bottom line, Twin Peaks as a whole, is driving me insane trying to solve the puzzle... Break the code, solve the crime.   How's Annie?  What year is this? 

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Posted : 14/05/2018 4:56 pm
(@julie_loader)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Julie Loader
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
Posted by: Julie Loader
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

What was the thing?

(C)andie

Naid(O)

(L)inda

Dian(E)

?

I am tempted to say people read too much into this, but I also recall seeing it before the show did the Naido/Diane switcheroo, as a part of people theorizing that Naido was Diane, so... ?

Was Naido Diane?

Why did she have a black thingy as a head? And why did it go to the red room?

I am still rather hung up on that myself. Further, was Diane Diane in those last parts? I have yet to settle on an interpretation

I know!

And when did they fall in love?

I have a bit of an idea that when he sees  her at the curtain call, they are already in love, and obviously at the sheriff station  they are definitely  in love, just not sure how to fit it all in. 

I cannot figure out why Naidos head turned into a nasty looking blob, and why did it go to the red room? 

All I  can come up with is that Mr C captured Diane after raping her and sent her to the red room where he made the tulpa Diane. That would mean that they could've had 25 years to fall in love.

Perhaps the fireman plucked real Diane from the red room and turned her into Naido and seng her to the purple palace to wait for Cooper and help him.

 

Thought please? 

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Posted : 14/05/2018 6:12 pm
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: Brian Hardin II
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

I can't for the life of me recall anything resembling a source, but somewhere I got the notion that Ontkean has himself been dealing with health issues. I think there was maybe something where it seemed like he was on board to come back, and then withdrew. Anyone know what I am talking about? Am I making things up? Did this just happen in a dream?

 

This is exactly what happened.  In fact, He was approached by Lynch to return and initially agreed.  He then sent to work trying to find the jacket he wore back in Season 1 and 2, and ended up getting a replica.  You can read more about it here on welcome to twin peaks:  http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/michael-ontkean-not-new-twin-peaks/

So basically...."For unnamed reasons, Michael Ontkean will not be coming out of retirement"

 

We still don't know any more than he was retired and still is.

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Posted : 14/05/2018 7:21 pm
(@caemeron)
Deputy

This remains the thing that perhaps bothers me the most, because I can't seem to land on an interpretation that quite feels right. Diane and Cooper kissing in the Sheriff's station felt so off to me that I think I may have actually booed the first time I saw it. You ask when they fell in love - I am still prone to resist the idea that they ever did.

But, let's say they did. I think the timeline would have to go something like this: Mr. C rapes Diane, and then takes her to the convenience store/Dutchman's (she basically tells us this). He creates the tulpa of Diane we know and love. The rest of Diane he traps in a Lodge created shell that cannot see nor really speak (Naido).

(And, I just decided I am going to bring in that theory about the creation of a tulpa taking something away from the individual that we have been talking about recently, and maybe I'll be ready to endorse that depending on how this line of thought I am writing/thinking works out.)

So, OK, tulpa Diane gets Diane's rage, and her trauma. Perhaps also in there is that aspect of herself that led her to reject Cooper's advances back in the 80s. They kissed once, but she thought it was unprofessional and so on. There was something there, which Mr. C took advantage of before he raped her. She says the kiss felt wrong, indicating that this wasn't the Cooper she had known. 

If those aspects were shorn from Diane with the creation of her tulpa, what are we left with? A Diane that is fundamentally Cooper's assistant, and who does care for him deeply, even if the relationship has been more platonic than erotic. Perhaps this explains her behavior, and the kiss in the station is a way of Cooper showing her it is him and not Mr. C (?)

So, why trap this Diane in Naido? Maybe the source of a tulpa has to remain alive in order for the tulpa to exist, or something like that? I don't know, but we could certainly see why Mr. C would want to keep her away from a position where she could help Cooper. 

Did he put her in the "mansion room"/mauve zone/eraserhead spaceship, or was it someone else? Why was the American Girl there after the switch was flipped? Was she Ronette Pulaski, or maybe something like Ronette's Carrie Page?

I don't think that Cooper knew Naido was Diane during that scene in ep3. Perhaps he doesn't in the station, either, but just recognizes Naido from that encounter. It is when they touch that the cage breaks and she becomes Diane. (So, a touch from the one who cast the spell breaks the spell, or something like that?)

I take it we cut to the red room and get that imagery to represent the fracturing of this illusion/Diane's release from what was a Lodge-created prison. 

I hope I made it clear that this isn't a worked out view I had in advance - I have been working it out as I wrote this. So, thanks for pushing me towards doing so.

Ooh, and maybe the terrible sex is an attempt to recombine Diane with the aspect of herself she lost when the tulpa was made?

Now this is something interesting to think about! What say the rest of you?

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Posted : 14/05/2018 7:45 pm Julie Loader liked
(@julie_loader)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain

This remains the thing that perhaps bothers me the most, because I can't seem to land on an interpretation that quite feels right. Diane and Cooper kissing in the Sheriff's station felt so off to me that I think I may have actually booed the first time I saw it. You ask when they fell in love - I am still prone to resist the idea that they ever did.

But, let's say they did. I think the timeline would have to go something like this: Mr. C rapes Diane, and then takes her to the convenience store/Dutchman's (she basically tells us this). He creates the tulpa of Diane we know and love. The rest of Diane he traps in a Lodge created shell that cannot see nor really speak (Naido).

(And, I just decided I am going to bring in that theory about the creation of a tulpa taking something away from the individual that we have been talking about recently, and maybe I'll be ready to endorse that depending on how this line of thought I am writing/thinking works out.)

So, OK, tulpa Diane gets Diane's rage, and her trauma. Perhaps also in there is that aspect of herself that led her to reject Cooper's advances back in the 80s. They kissed once, but she thought it was unprofessional and so on. There was something there, which Mr. C took advantage of before he raped her. She says the kiss felt wrong, indicating that this wasn't the Cooper she had known. 

If those aspects were shorn from Diane with the creation of her tulpa, what are we left with? A Diane that is fundamentally Cooper's assistant, and who does care for him deeply, even if the relationship has been more platonic than erotic. Perhaps this explains her behavior, and the kiss in the station is a way of Cooper showing her it is him and not Mr. C (?)

So, why trap this Diane in Naido? Maybe the source of a tulpa has to remain alive in order for the tulpa to exist, or something like that? I don't know, but we could certainly see why Mr. C would want to keep her away from a position where she could help Cooper. 

Did he put her in the "mansion room"/mauve zone/eraserhead spaceship, or was it someone else? Why was the American Girl there after the switch was flipped? Was she Ronette Pulaski, or maybe something like Ronette's Carrie Page?

I don't think that Cooper knew Naido was Diane during that scene in ep3. Perhaps he doesn't in the station, either, but just recognizes Naido from that encounter. It is when they touch that the cage breaks and she becomes Diane. (So, a touch from the one who cast the spell breaks the spell, or something like that?)

I take it we cut to the red room and get that imagery to represent the fracturing of this illusion/Diane's release from what was a Lodge-created prison. 

I hope I made it clear that this isn't a worked out view I had in advance - I have been working it out as I wrote this. So, thanks for pushing me towards doing so.

Ooh, and maybe the terrible sex is an attempt to recombine Diane with the aspect of herself she lost when the tulpa was made?

Now this is something interesting to think about! What say the rest of you?

Yes, I  was thinking like you!

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Posted : 14/05/2018 9:48 pm
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