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I Am Like The Blue Rose  

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(@mj_gilbert)
Deputy
Posted by: Myn0k
Posted by: MJ Gilbert
Posted by: Myn0k
Posted by: MJ Gilbert

And I say this as a person who still can't get past the fact that Peter Jacskon didn't film the Scouring of the Shire...

Could've been worse. 

He could've chosen to film Tom Bombadil!

Oh, Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadil-ohh!

I have always wondered what happened to the Entwives. Could they have been Sycamores??

I did wonder if they were there all along, and the Ents just never paid attention to them, so they never knew they were staring them in the face all this (that?) time. 

I think they founded a wymyn-only syndicalist/collectivist commune, somewhere on the shores of the Sea of Rhun. 

I AM the FBI.

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Posted : 19/08/2017 3:26 pm Myn0k liked
(@samxtherapy)
Detective
Posted by: Myn0k
Posted by: MJ Gilbert

As for "answers" in general, as in science, there are no ultimate answers. Each answer we find begs more questions.

I think it was Neil Degrasse Tyson who said that all science, specifically quantum mechanics, is ultimately just a language used to speculate how the universe works. The language continuously changes as we understand more about the workings of reality and our calculations become more accurate, but the questions and answers become far more bizarre.

Sort of.  Relativity is straightforward enough, quantum stuff less so but still more or less graspable, some of the time.

I have a very strong suspicion science has missed a trick or two about gravity, though, when it comes to the search for the ultimate particle.  

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 19/08/2017 3:35 pm Myn0k liked
(@natural-log-e)
RR Diner Patron

For me, the imagination here is allowed to go wild. Imagine a cheap 1970's motel in Olympia, WA. Young Gordon and Young Phillip bust into a room only to find they are too late. A woman is dying on the floor. What's the problem? It's very fun to imagine this. I don't know about anyone else, but, unlike the Jeffries scene in FWWM, this feels "simple" to explain. Also, in agreement that Tammy's response was the key here, in addition to understanding to a greater extent the wealth of knowledge that Albert possesses at this point. Albert has proven himself reliable. Imagine Albert explaining to Sam Stanley the Jeffries scene! What could he have said to make that clear? 

 

Your Laura disappeared. There's just me now.

This has been a message...from the LOG.

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Posted : 19/08/2017 7:30 pm Myn0k and SamXTherapy liked
(@natural-log-e)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: Myn0k

Let's talk about the importance of this scene. 

We know now that the issue of doppelgangers is one that dates back, at least in terms of FBI involvement, to the 70s, where a young Gordon Cole and Philip Jeffries are investigating a suspect in a murder case. And then the doppelganger, in her dying breath, essentially acknowledged that she is artificial - a doppelganger. Then she disappears. 

To me, this suggested that the FBI has been investigating a lot of doppelganger cases under the blue rose flag. Not just lodge or supernatural cases. But cases involving doppelgangers. 

The lady shot her doppelganger. And the doppelganger died/disappeared. Now we know two things: doppelgangers disappear when they're killed, and you CAN kill your doppelganger. I'm jumping slightly to conclusions as we don't know what events took place between the original lady and her doppelganger, nor the events that led to her having a double in the physical world. 

Doppelgangers, therefore, are more common than we've so far been led to believe. How does it/the cloning happen? Did she enter the lodge and have a copy made of her? Were Theresa Banks, Laura Palmer and hey, maybe Maddie, subject to having Tulpas created after their murder?

Lots of questions. Definitely one of my favourite scenes in the series so far. 

Edit - and for what it's worth, I didn't feel this exposition needed a scene to explain it. We had the FWWM exposition and flashback. Didn't need an extra backstory filmed here - would've been overkill IMO. 

Interesting that the ones who complained about the "slow dragging" of episodes 12 and 13 are the same ones now wanting more exposition and unecessary shots 😉

Not a dig, just highlighting the difference of opinion. We can agree to disagree 🙂

To me for instance slow means good usually 😉 I can't speak for others complaining in this thread but the point i was talking about is that i saw a difference in this episode: when creativity is coming from a large space and freedom, and when the way is restricted by the urge of plot.  This was the slight disappointment of mine, basically that in terms of the plot there were epic facts happening but in terms of the realization i felt too much control almost. The scenes weren't as epic as the revelations (like there's not much time left for that).

Edit: Yes you can kill your doppelganger,  but you forgot to mention that after she did it she commited suicide... this is very interesting for me and makes me wonder a lot! 

 

Has anything indicated that Lois Duffy shot her doppelgänger, and not the other way around? I think everyone has assumed this; but isn't it also fully possible that the real Lois Duffy had been gunned down?

Your Laura disappeared. There's just me now.

This has been a message...from the LOG.

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Posted : 19/08/2017 7:31 pm Jocelyn Rowe liked
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: natural log - E
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: Myn0k

Let's talk about the importance of this scene. 

We know now that the issue of doppelgangers is one that dates back, at least in terms of FBI involvement, to the 70s, where a young Gordon Cole and Philip Jeffries are investigating a suspect in a murder case. And then the doppelganger, in her dying breath, essentially acknowledged that she is artificial - a doppelganger. Then she disappears. 

To me, this suggested that the FBI has been investigating a lot of doppelganger cases under the blue rose flag. Not just lodge or supernatural cases. But cases involving doppelgangers. 

The lady shot her doppelganger. And the doppelganger died/disappeared. Now we know two things: doppelgangers disappear when they're killed, and you CAN kill your doppelganger. I'm jumping slightly to conclusions as we don't know what events took place between the original lady and her doppelganger, nor the events that led to her having a double in the physical world. 

Doppelgangers, therefore, are more common than we've so far been led to believe. How does it/the cloning happen? Did she enter the lodge and have a copy made of her? Were Theresa Banks, Laura Palmer and hey, maybe Maddie, subject to having Tulpas created after their murder?

Lots of questions. Definitely one of my favourite scenes in the series so far. 

Edit - and for what it's worth, I didn't feel this exposition needed a scene to explain it. We had the FWWM exposition and flashback. Didn't need an extra backstory filmed here - would've been overkill IMO. 

Interesting that the ones who complained about the "slow dragging" of episodes 12 and 13 are the same ones now wanting more exposition and unecessary shots 😉

Not a dig, just highlighting the difference of opinion. We can agree to disagree 🙂

To me for instance slow means good usually 😉 I can't speak for others complaining in this thread but the point i was talking about is that i saw a difference in this episode: when creativity is coming from a large space and freedom, and when the way is restricted by the urge of plot.  This was the slight disappointment of mine, basically that in terms of the plot there were epic facts happening but in terms of the realization i felt too much control almost. The scenes weren't as epic as the revelations (like there's not much time left for that).

Edit: Yes you can kill your doppelganger,  but you forgot to mention that after she did it she commited suicide... this is very interesting for me and makes me wonder a lot! 

 

Has anything indicated that Lois Duffy shot her doppelgänger, and not the other way around? I think everyone has assumed this; but isn't it also fully possible that the real Lois Duffy had been gunned down?

I wondered that as well.

But wait, who is really the doppelganger.  The doppelganger of your doppelganger is .................you.

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Posted : 19/08/2017 7:42 pm natural log - E liked
(@natural-log-e)
RR Diner Patron

But wait, who is really the doppelganger.  The doppelganger of your doppelganger is .................you.

Unless Lois Duffy wasn't interacting with her doppelgänger at all, but a manufactured being, a tulpa. Maybe tulpas and doppelgängers really are different aspects.

Your Laura disappeared. There's just me now.

This has been a message...from the LOG.

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Posted : 19/08/2017 7:46 pm Jocelyn Rowe liked
(@jocelyn)
Roadhouse Regular

The dying one said she was like a blue rose. Seems clear which one she was. How are these created? Some lodge power creates them when there is a reason to. Bob appeared to create Mr C.  We don't know about the rest. 

The suicide shouldn't require a lot of explanation. 

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Posted : 19/08/2017 9:36 pm natural log - E liked
(@natural-log-e)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Jocelyn Rowe

The dying one said she was like a blue rose. Seems clear which one she was. How are these created? Some lodge power creates them when there is a reason to. Bob appeared to create Mr C.  We don't know about the rest. 

The suicide shouldn't require a lot of explanation. 

This could be very circular, though, Jocelyn. For instance, if the dying Lois Duffy said it and was the real one, she might have been hinting at the truth, calling attention to the unnatural elements. And, if she created a tulpa, then she probably has some strange mental capacities and thought processes. This didn't seem that cut and dry, and yet visually very simple to imagine.

Your Laura disappeared. There's just me now.

This has been a message...from the LOG.

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Posted : 19/08/2017 9:44 pm Jocelyn Rowe and Brandy Fisher liked
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: natural log - E
Posted by: Jocelyn Rowe

The dying one said she was like a blue rose. Seems clear which one she was. How are these created? Some lodge power creates them when there is a reason to. Bob appeared to create Mr C.  We don't know about the rest. 

The suicide shouldn't require a lot of explanation. 

This could be very circular, though, Jocelyn. For instance, if the dying Lois Duffy said it and was the real one, she might have been hinting at the truth, calling attention to the unnatural elements. And, if she created a tulpa, then she probably has some strange mental capacities and thought processes. This didn't seem that cut and dry, and yet visually very simple to imagine.

Very good point. Thus why I am cautious of using words like "shouldn't" and "clear" and whatnots when referring to this show.  🙂

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Posted : 19/08/2017 9:53 pm natural log - E liked
(@jocelyn)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: natural log - E
Posted by: Jocelyn Rowe

The dying one said she was like a blue rose. Seems clear which one she was. How are these created? Some lodge power creates them when there is a reason to. Bob appeared to create Mr C.  We don't know about the rest. 

The suicide shouldn't require a lot of explanation. 

This could be very circular, though, Jocelyn. For instance, if the dying Lois Duffy said it and was the real one, she might have been hinting at the truth, calling attention to the unnatural elements. And, if she created a tulpa, then she probably has some strange mental capacities and thought processes. This didn't seem that cut and dry, and yet visually very simple to imagine.

"Why you have to make something so simple so #!***# difficult" (Richard Horne to his grandmother).

Just kidding.  I tend to think that many things in this series mean just what they say. Everything could be circular if we think them all to death from every possible angle. 

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Posted : 19/08/2017 10:11 pm ezekielmoist and natural log - E liked
(@myn0k)
Deputy

Also, remember the one who said Blue Rose disappeared when they died. I think only doppelgangers do this. Or manufactured ones like Dougie. 

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Posted : 20/08/2017 4:17 am Jocelyn Rowe liked
(@ezekielmoist)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Jocelyn Rowe
Posted by: natural log - E
Posted by: Jocelyn Rowe

The dying one said she was like a blue rose. Seems clear which one she was. How are these created? Some lodge power creates them when there is a reason to. Bob appeared to create Mr C.  We don't know about the rest. 

The suicide shouldn't require a lot of explanation. 

This could be very circular, though, Jocelyn. For instance, if the dying Lois Duffy said it and was the real one, she might have been hinting at the truth, calling attention to the unnatural elements. And, if she created a tulpa, then she probably has some strange mental capacities and thought processes. This didn't seem that cut and dry, and yet visually very simple to imagine.

"Why you have to make something so simple so #!***# difficult" (Richard Horne to his grandmother).

Love the quote! 

 

There's nothing quite like urinating out in the open air

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Posted : 20/08/2017 4:50 am Jocelyn Rowe liked
(@jocelyn)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Myn0k

Also, remember the one who said Blue Rose disappeared when they died. I think only doppelgangers do this. Or manufactured ones like Dougie. 

But aren't all doppelgangers really "manufactured"? We only got that word from Mike. Maybe Mr C developed some technology to actually create a physical clone of himself. But it seems more likely the original Dougie was created the way they all are. 

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Posted : 20/08/2017 6:42 am
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